Please Help! Is There a God?

I was nearly 8 yrs old when I was “formally” introduced to religion - it was always around me, but I had no understanding of it, nor did it play a role in my life. Though 8 may seem young, I already had a strong sense of self and the world around me, I had lived this long without a God and did not understand why I needed one.

As I got older I tried to follow my family in their devotion (or lack thereof) but still could not rationalize why I needed to. So I deceided this was not for me.

I believe in the power of the mind - and perhaps communally our higher selves function as a God? We can make things happen simply by believing.

lindsey,

k so its really up to u to piece together ur experiences, thoughts and feelings included, in order to temporarily conclude this mystery. perhaps the best of us will never be able to hold onto such knowledge, be it a fleeting feeling of such beauty that it passes only long enough to experience it unconsciously. trying to wrap ur mind around profound “godly” things is something that comes from repeated exposure to the great mystery. in old age, i feel, it will be easier to pinpoint the origins of these extra senses. return to the places that bring u comfort and peace. calm and quiet is clearly loud. turn off ur senses and tune into the “god ” channel. it might take u some time and effort to fine tune ur antenna.

as for me, i am a theosophist. i live by the motto “there is no religion higher than truth”. i balance this with chaos, which holds “nothing is true, everything is permitted”. my experiences brought me here, however, i do believe there is an absolute truth that is eventually acheivable by all. extract what works for u and build upon it. i cannot and will not say that i know who or what “god” is but i do acknowledge the existence of something more that is responsible for all of the connectivity and beauty that i have most definately witnessed. dont get too consumed by the “god” theories, just live the best u can if all else fails. i wish u peace and warmth on ur journey.

love

As you may, or may not, know; I have posted a “challenge”to people on my blog under the video “GOD DOES NOT EXIST” (it may be a few pages deep by now though)… I would encourage anyone who has any doubts to the validity of “GOD” to try it…Its free, simple, and honest…

I would also encourage anyone with these same doubts to see the DNA video close by the one mentioned above…(although there are so many such truths coming out now, at this point in time…>and “NO” I don't think any theory on a “rapture” is correct …at least not in any way being taught to the dumbed-down corporate-apostate church goers…)…

I don't go to any “church”,…I don't belong to any “dogma” … I have no “religion”… But I DO “believe” (actually “KNOW”) God and it is through the self-sacrifice of GOD by sending forth His Heart / Word / Intentions / Motivations through to us in this part of His creation as a “man-ling” called “Yeshua”-(spelling)- (“Jesus”) to become our Christ and to show His intent plainly towards us that has made my faith become “knowing” (also by the many miracles and answered prayers I've seen etc.,.) and it has now become a true “relationship” which is all GOD wanted to begin with…

We were God's creation to establish JOY … Those of us who seek truth in a world of lies and illusions; will find God…. IF we “choose” Him, we make Him “happy”…and so that our joy and His remains, He gives us eternal life in His presence.  He has ordained us (the new beautifiers of the universe) to declare His holiness through His mercy and sacrifice to obtain and retrieve us (because we choose Him, and we first choose truth… Of course this is after being “led”> like everyone reading this now is…>then we are truly “the CHOSEN” of God…)… and His goodness towards us as His chosen instruments of His Joy-creation to express His Love…

We have been created with His attributes in the ranges of all our emotions, the abilities of our senses, the awareness of our being, and even the ability of “speaking” our destiny in this minute moment of the eternal, and the Freewill He saw fit to create Joy with is also yet another of His wonders… To take the down-trodden, the unwanted, the outcasts, (Moses was a murderer, Abraham pimped off his wife, Noah was a drunkard, Matthew was a tax-collector against his own people >”a traitor”, etc.,. etc.,.) the weak, the discarded and to build and use them for his Glory that His truth and intentions might be further known etc.,.and more may come into that Joy of truth…and truth of His Joy-creation…

We have no fur to keep us warm, no sharp teeth to defend us and to kill prey with, no specialized sight as in predatory animals, no great hearing ranges as predatory animals, we cannot compete in speed, nor in agility, no hooves or claws…we are but dog-food without the attributes of the divine appointment of God…A baby duck has some chance of survival without outside intervention… But a human baby has none at all. It will die 100% of the time without outside intervention… We are the weakest and lowly of creatures that should dominate the world…yet we do… Our bodies carry us around in this world…the same as “God is spirit and truth” we are the same… The only difference we have is that we have these human bodies to carry all that we are around…and He has a “Holy Spirit” to get things done with… Our is temporary, His is eternal… But even so…He sent the part of Himself that He has always confided with (like you when you reason with yourself) “His Heart” to take on one of our forms and to show us His intentions towards mankind in-person… 

He was perfect and could not create Evil. But, He needed to polarize Himself in order to give the creation that would bring Joy into being a “choice” to chose from, a “darkness” to seek “light” (truth) in… So His plan was hatched, He knew of my response here before the first rock, the first angel , the first molecule was created… He gave what we call “Lucifer” (“the light bearer”) the job of declaring His Holiness eternally (knowing that Lucifer wouldn't fulfill his post to that extent)… He made Lucifer the most beautiful of all creation for this purpose… He gave Lucifer a TITLE to let him corrupt himself…”High Prince of Heaven”…and the first EGO was born from the self-created seed-of-greed by Lucifer…
But God outnumbered this Archangel two to one by also creating the Archangels of Michael and Gabriel and giving all three the same number of angels to have a charge over them… In short, God created “Beauty” to almost a fault, and gave it a Title and a Freewill to corrupt itself…or give God the glory for…(either way would have created “JOY” for God…but this way, there will be almost infinite, if not infinite variations of that JOY and more to be made throughout eternity…)… Oh He had a “plan” alright…and much BIGGER plans for the future…!!!

His plans for mankind have not began to unfold. Our collective history on Earth is but a story to be remembered and honored throughout eternity for all life forms to know of God's goodness…and His awesomeness of being… It is but a “teaching tool” for creations yet undreamed of in the mind of God (“The Father” that desires relationships with His creations)……This IS the only GOD…(and the only one worth seeking, all else is counterfeit..Like it is written (“no” I don't memorize Bible-Verses either)….

“I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes unto the Father except by me”…
— (Yeshua) / (Jesus) The Living and Risen Christ 

My “faith” is NOT a “blind” one, or one of  “indoctrination”… I have spent many years researching other “religions”, “ancient histories”, “hidden histories”, pre-“Adam” civilizations, the “paranormal”, “scientific” data,  “discoveries” and ancient “re-discoveries” that is mostly suppressed etc.,. etc.,.(mixed with many LIES and much deceit) I am led by God's spirit to tell you these things…Perhaps it is the ONLY time you will ever have this door of intrigue and truth opened for you… I know you won't get it in an apostate “church”… I guess God wanted you to seek Him too…?!?

See my blog for the late Ron Wyatt stuff >a couple of short videos>AMAZING TRUTHS (the world was not allowed to see this stuff until the “last days”…But it's NOW on my blog…So, what time is it?!?)

lots to consider…if you truly seek “TRUTH”…
skyman

Curious. If  God were to reveal Himself: a) How would He accomplish doing so? Through history? Or possibly through an individual sentient being? And, b) Would every person accept it?
   God is omniscient. It is true He does know every decision we make. However, regardless if God is omniscient or not (I believe that He is) He allows us to choose freely.
When God established His laws for governing free will, He allowed a certain risk to become part of human existence. The risk is not a part of God's existence (risk connotes uncertainty). This risk is a sacrafice (one of many) that God had to impliment in order for free will to be an absolute one. The risk is that some of His creation would choose not to believe in Him. So He came to earth and removed the consequences of the risk, but left the risk here to remain.

Hi Lindsey!  :O)

You asked me to comment. OK!

Q: “so my question for you is this: what are the reasons upon which you have based your foundation of faith, or the lack of for that matter, and what led you to that conclusion?”

A: This is something I usually avoid commenting upon in public, but your wish is my command.

The cutting-edge of realization has long ago outgrown our tribal forms of “spiritual” understanding that have too long dominated spirituality, religion, and the commercial marketplace.

God as traditionally presented and largely adhered to today by the “faithful” is not necessary relative to other more inclusive possibilities and forms of understanding derived from direct experience and the best of inquiry and realization.

Is God “dead?” Yes. Never really existed to begin with. Is there “something” far more interesting, inclusive, creative, evocative, intrinsically uncertain, and mysterious? Oh yes!

Real spirituality today is by default integrative and synergistic. It is no longer predicated upon gaudy baroque theologies and primitive forms of understanding wrapped in magical and mythical packages. However, this is not to deny that the world is largely developmentally arrested in magical and mythical thinking.

We do not and cannot apprehend Reality. It simply mercifully unfolds within us in an ongoing way if we achieve openness, non-clinging, and awareness. In this openness, we are free to dance, experiment, and explore. Going back 100, 200, or a few thousands years to “apprehend” Reality, our theatre of exploration and celebration collapses into a very narrow, developmentally arrested, and myopic field of “knowing.”

Much love to YOU!





 

God did send his son and what a beautiful verse John 3:16 is, but you forgot to finish it. “…So that he who believes in him (Christ) should not perish but have everlasting life.” Then, Verse 17 says that he (Christ) didn't come to destroy the world, but to save it. That's a lot of authority to give a mere human.
furthermore, to say that God does not have the power to send himself, is to restrict God of  power and confine him within our own incapacious understanding of him.
As far as John 20 goes; this is right after the Resurrection. Christ knew that his time left on earth was minimal, so he told mary not to cling ( haptomai = lit. “attach oneself to) to him as to not create more distress for his earthly mother. You'll notice also that a few verses later that Christ then states that “As the Father has sent me, also I am sending you.”
If the Trinity is a myth, then why have countless Christ followers been tortured and murdered for it, including the authors of the New Testament? Surely someone would have given up the secret before they gave up the ghost.

Daniel,

We get to express our views and realizations on Gaia. We get to share and interbe. However, it is not a platform for personal attack and disparaging statements directed towards specific individuals.

In a spirit of tolerance and kind regard, it is best to keep our statements abstract, impersonal, and truthful when presenting alternative viewpoints.

I posted on Lindsey’s blog because she requested it of me. I qualified my comment by saying I was usually reluctant to express my view on the subject. However, I cannot be opaque. I am transparent when requested to speak. I honored a friend’s request.

 May you be happy, healthy, comfortable, and successful.

Silent Temple

My “comprehension abilities” are finite. Finite cannot understand the Infinite fully, unless it has been revealed to them. 

It's unfortunate that your amalgamation religion has clouded your mind in regards to your quest for truth. Here is something that you should consider: Every religion that you've mentioned (or implied) has exclusive truth claims. Logically, they cannot all be correct at the same time, as this would make truth relative,  thus rendering it impossible for Absolute Truth to exist. If Absolute Truth didn't exist,  again logically,  there would be no standard to measure something as being true at all, ergo, truth wouldn't exist and everything would be permissable. If God (Absolute Truth) were to reveal Himself through a person, wouldn't He make the claim that there was only one truth? Following that same line of reasoning, wouldn't it be logical to say that His way was the only true way to know Him?
 
You are right when you say that Jesus was the way at that time. However, in mentioning that, you should have just left it as “Jesus is the way”. In John 14 Jesus makes that claim quite clear. He didn't say “I am one of the ways, one of the truths and one of the lives, there are many ways to the Father.” Rather he said. “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” To say that Christ was the Satguru would be to combine two religions with opposing truth claims. But, as noted above, a finite comprehension of the Infinite would be impossible unless the Infinite chose to make Himself known through revelation (i.e. being primed by the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Trinity equal with the other two).

Hello Lindsay. Thanx for giving me the opportunity to offer a perspective.

Personally I am not one  who naturally experiences faith. I am, however, one who has used a variety of methods to expand, extend, develop and refine his awareness over the last 25 years…and as I have done so, my awareness of a Presence behind the scenery is growing…

I like the notion of God suggested by Ken Wilber…he suggests that some folk see god as the first person…broadly speaking; if I meditate/ follow my path, i expand my awareness so that I Am….or I am God.

God in the Second Person is the Divine Other into whose loving embrace I melt thereby dissolving my ego into…

God in the Third Person is The “It”, the Kosmos…inner and outer space…which is the ultimate manifestation  of spirit-in-Matter.

You can choose to experience God in any one or two or all three perspectives….to those whom, like myself, are not strong in faith, working towards  seeing God as myself through meditation, or seeing the wonder in nature and contemplating that are connecting with strands on a triple braid that, ultimately, issue from one source.

Hope this proves of use. Good luck in your quest. jon xx

 In John 8, when Christ says “Before Abraham was, I am,” he is making reference to his equality with God the Father (YHWH) as expressed in Exodus 3:14. The Jews who were around Christ at this time clearly understood his meaning and prepared to stone him for blaspheming.  
I have been showing you the scriptural mistakes you've been making by commenting on the verses you have inserted your meaning into. Here are some others you might want to think about in reference to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Breath existing as a triune God. MATT 28:19 (the great commission), Psalm 110:1conversation between God the Father and God the Son), John 5:21(Christ's shared authority with the Father) ,John 17:5 (the glory Christ shared with the Father).

I understand the confusion and irrationality associated with God's plurality in His unity. Again (as noted earlier) our minds don't have the capacity to understand how 1+1+1=1.

Hebrews 1:6, simply put, states that all of God's angels worship God the Son (Christ) . And (since you have so accurately pointed out that God cannot lie) the very first Commandment mandated by God Himself in Exodus 20 is “You shall have no other Gods before me.” Christ also shows this as paramount when he was asked which of the commandments is greatest. So if God's angels are worshipping Christ, and if Christ is not God, then the angels are in direct violation of God's first commandment.

Hi Lindsey,

I thought Id respond to this comment if that is ok :

 ''lastly i know the bible tells us that he is a benevolent god but how can we believe this when there is so much suffering? can we really say that all good is from god but all bad is merely god's will? this is the best cop out i've ever heard!''

I dont think GOD causes suffering - I think the systems and hierarchies and closed hearts of man [ as in mankind ] is responsible for most of the suffering. God does not start wars we do, God does not cause the ills and the pain and the agonies in this world we do ..

As to you your question - I dont think you can find God with your head and through words and through debate - you wanna find God - stop looking and be happy.

You wanna feel God - when did you last feel love ? when did you last laugh out loud with joy ? That to me feels like God.

You wanna see God - stand by the sea - watch the birds in the spring - play with a child - really look at a tree… lie on your back in the summer in a field on a warm day, watch the clouds, chew some grass, listen to the bees working, smell the wafts of fragrant wild flowers…

When your mind is very active with questions - its hard to feel - and its through feeling through your heart that you will find God .. in my humble opinion.

Also - I think when you have a still mind and you feel rather then think your way through life .. you connect to subtle energies - in a similar way to animals - you feel dimensions and energies that you were not aware of before .. its hard to explain ..  but good luck :)

and daniel - it bugs me what you said to silent temple which was '' i wish for you to keep quiet'' - why would you say that ? That is a very elitist attitude .. and rude  .. i cant see what he said in his post to elicit such a response ?

Of course the answer is that you are God. But it's a bit of a simple answer. We are all Gods; in fact we are all stars. When we are born human, we come with one of those beautiful life giving suns known as stars. Their light is so bright in us that they show us a path, whether it be day or night. Most of us don't know that we are a star and we are therefore limited by what our environment tells us. That's why it is essential for you to be born again…not of water or spirit but as an individual. At some point you must accept that what everyone has told you till now means nothing, and that the only truth in the world is the one that you find. When you read, you should just read; no judgements, trust that your intuition will provide your answers in due course. Make no judgement on anything, once you lock something in, you restrict your potential; so you better be right. I've locked in the teachings of Lao Tzu, this is dangerous but I am happy with what I have gained from Taoism. Lao Tzu's teaching can be summed up with the idea that you are able to buy a plane ticket, but you must know that you may never get on that plane. You have no control over the world, you must go with the flow of the world to find balance.
I suspect God is the Sun, I therefore suspect that all the 12's that we have in astrology and theology are the 12 brightest stars after the sun. Depending on what website you go on, the 13th brightest star is Acrux, I suspect that there may be something in this; time will tell.

for most of us, faith is a many-terrained journey, with huge highs and horrifics lows along the way. i moved from an unquestioning faith as a child to a cool pseudo-agnosticism as an adolescent to a fervent evangelicalism in my late teens and twenties, which has become more and more open through my experiences of God through my life experiences. especially a recent very painful break with my church. there is no way to prove God's existence to someone who deep down does not want to believe - we now seem to have as many evangelical atheistics as evangelical fundamentalists :) in the end, you will have to look into the depths of your spirit and find what truth waits there.

namaste,

nicole

You dont find God in logic … and mental discourse does not bring you closer to God .. and how people connect is a very personal thing and noone can comment  on how another chooses to do this..

''illogical beliefs should be discarded'' huh - why should logic be the only way - logic is a tool - logic is blind to many of the subtle feelings - it's blind to love for example - what does logic know of Love ?

I agree with what Nicole says - you have to look inside you for the truth .. no one else can tell you anything - you have to find it your self

Our minds, with their constand thoughts, questions and  busy  ness can make us blind … you cant tell other people how to be Daniel

well everyone has their own way i guess .. its more then intuition for me though - its a deeper knowing and i cant explain it - i just understand things when I feel them and my mind has problems interpreting what i am feeling sometimes .. to me my mind is a tool ..

thats all .. i feel my personal truth - my mind is there to interprete that and sometimes my mind cannot express this in words - but i cant explain what I mean - which is ok - we all have our own ways ..

but logic and thought and our minds can make us blind thats all..

It's when our minds are still that the answers come .. and my feelings are intelligent and discerning too …

ok no worries .. well we just see things differently .. thats ok though

'''If you are an example of looking inside to get all your answers that is a good reason to seek outside help.'' daniel

haha how rude !!! well you dont know me .. but you can be rude thats fine freedom of speech and all that …. but it just makes people turn away and not want to spend time with you or connect with you .. and im not talking about me - i dont know you and will never meet you …

haha … i love you too ..

i like people like you .. you make me feel good about myself .. thanks

what do you say brother daniel .. oh yes ..

namaste

Lindsey, as you can see above from the myriad of beliefs and opinions (same thing) expressed, it is a question impossible to answer in this temporal world of ours, so why spend time and energy trying to respolve the unresolveable?
Instead, live a life free from the divisions, violence and, at times, palpable hatred that this subject matter brings. Clear your mind of all that you have heard, read, been taught or have come to believe or not to believe and instead simply love yourself, forgive all, and live a life of self responsibility, aware of the fact that how you live and how you express that love in your daily thoughts, words and deeds, not what theories you have, determines the quality of life for you and those within your sphere of influence.
Take care.

''You have already commented on my way of connecting, and you then proceed to tell me how I cannot comment? Not only are you a hypocrite, you are illogical as well, quite a resume indeed;'' quote from Daniel ..

''haha you crack me up .. do you not see the irony in what you have written .. '' quote from me back to Daniel with lots of love and a big namaste ..

Dear All,
I wanna tell my point of view. Thanks if you are so king to read.
As a kid I was asked to believe in God and I did, till I grew and started to think by myself. I still remember the day I felt God wasn't there, it was for nothing special, just suddenly realized of it and hurted a little, the fear for freedom I guess.

Religions are sects that use God to dominate others, and have no problem to dammage brothers and sisters to demonstrate they have the real God by their side.
We have already had enough wars for God, now called wars for peace….isn't it crazy?  Why couldn't we start to learn something from the past? Have our ancesters lived for nothing?

I prefer focusing myself cultivating love and other good qualities no matter the copyright is claimed belonging to a lot of God representatives. I am not going to pay anything to anyone for something that's inside me.

Anyway the Philosophers have to think about everything, also about God, of course, it's their job, not mine, thank Godness (see? the costume)
thanks and be in peace my friends, whatever you  believe in, only love is the essential.

Daniel,

    When Christ said Eli, Eli, lema Sabachthani while impaled on the cross, He was reciting from Psalm 22. Christ did this to fulfill prophecy as well as his role as propitiation with perfection. You'll notice that after Christ yielded up his spirit, the curtain in the Temple was split in two. This is important because only God can placate Himself. This is saying that there is now a way to have a relationship with God the Father because God the Son was the perfect sacrafice; He is a hypostatic union. 1. Eternal (fully God)2. finite (fully human). It is such a beautiful mathematical formulation that won't make sense unless He has revealed it. Infinity stepped into and confined Himself into a vulnerable finite vessel. Only God's own sacrafice can satisfy His demands.

   Friend, I live for Logic. To say that i've been indoctrinated is wrong primarily because to be indoctrinated one must accept doctrine without criticism. I used to be an Athiest. It was my criticism that pushed me in the direction of God. I guess you could say I was searching. However, you should know as well as I do that we cannot find God unless He calls us to. In other words, seeking will not find unless God Himself designs it. (Rev. 3:20, Luke 13:24)

Let's move back to Matt 28:19 The Great Commision. You'll notice that the verse states that baptism is to be in the NAME of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. the verse says name It does not say names. 1+1+1=1. This may be illogical from a worldly perspective, but it is perfectly logical from a spiritual and scriptural perspective. God is one. To be sure, there are numerous unequivocal affirmations of monotheism throughout the 66 books. However, there are also numerous unequivocal affirmations of 3 seperate persons in One. For instance, in Genesis 1:1-3 “In the beginning 'Elohim (plural in form) created. In Gen. 1:26-27 ”…the earth was formless and void…and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water” (showing the involvement of the 3rd person of the Trinity). Then God ( 'Elohim) said “Let there be light.” This is the work of the creative Word (Logos) who is the second person of the Trinity that is described in Johns Gospel. 

   Each Person of the Trinity has a definite function both in the work of creation and in the work of redemption. The Father is the source of all things, the one who planned and ordained redemption (John 3:16). The incarnation was a fulfillment of His previously announced decrees in Psalm 2:7 (begetting) and Isaiah 53:6,10 (messianic Servant as atonement for sins).

   It's all there brother. He's knocking at your door, let Him in.



   

Come on people, use the brains that God gave you. Truth cannot be relative. In order for it to exist there must be an Absolute. In other words,  if what I believe and what you believe are different, they CANNOT both be correct. They can both be wrong, and I admit that. But, to say  “just follow your heart and believe what you want, meditate and maybe you'll get there” is to engage in intellectual suicide. If there is no Absolute, then there is no way to measure ANYTHING as being true. There MUST be an Absolute Truth in order for any truth to exist. The question should not be find YOUR truth, rather, it should be find THE truth. I fear that people have developed apathy towards truth. 

''Come on people, use the brains that God gave you. Truth cannot be relative. In order for it to exist there must be an Absolute. In other words,  if what I believe and what you believe are different, they CANNOT both be correct.'' joey

maybe they are two separate views of the same truth - we do not all see things from the same perspective / angles and maybe metaphorically speaking we are looking out of different windows at the same thing - it does not make us both wrong, we could both be right - so truth is  still absolute despite different perspectives and descriptions of the same truth - in my opinion anyway.

 “just follow your heart and believe what you want, meditate and maybe you'll get there” is to engage in intellectual suicide'' joey

did anyone actually say that on this thread or are you just paraphrasing ? it's interesting that you say this though, because i think in some ways that being intellectual about god is  very detrimental to understanding and living the truth of God or life - it can lead to endless pontification and debate , in fact a big round intellectual circle of words and never ending arguments.

animals are very in tune with God - with the web of life - with nature - i never see them discussing theology and reading dawkins or the bible.

''I fear that people have developed apathy towards truth. ''joey

who do you fear has developed apathy towards the truth ?.. i did not see apathy from anyone here .. I think that it is hard to explain feelings about god in a few sentences and there are limitations in words - and so maybe the statement you made is a bit harsh.

Izz you are touching on some wonderful stuff here….

You're right God is not intellectual; God is of spirit, soul or heart. You can only feel God, you can talk about Gods manifestation ie Nature, but you can't talk about the Eternal God (Lao Tzu influence here).

Animals are in tune with God because they are of course nature. We are nature too, therefore we must find our balance in nature; when we find our balance in nature we become one with our consciousness.

People have developed apathy towards the truth; in the sense that they have stopped searching for it and instead choose to take a prepared sliced and diced version from the world.

Jesus brought the truth with him and when he tried to take the Torah and show it to the Gentiles he was killed for it. He didn't survive because he is not the son of God. The child of God which has come, is a woman. We are told that when god returns, it will be end man's reign. We should start to take this advice literally.

thanks grant and yes you are right many problems in the world today are caused by apathy to the truth I guess .. a lack of reverance for life .. for the web of life - for creation …

to me God is life - God is creation - he is power and love and beauty he is everything - I guess he even appears in our pontifications .. with endless patience .. maybe

but you are also right - we cant intellectualise God  … its crazy :)

God is something we each create. We all walk a path, whether different or the same. I think if anyone says that their belief is more truer than others, than obviously they are wrong, since other people are just as faithful-just in something different.

I have been agnostic pretty much my whole life. I am continuing to study different beliefs and scriptures and religions, ideas and so far I've never been 100% by just one. I dont know whether its because I'm stubborn and want to be 100% convinced, or if I just would rather be exploring my whole life and never settle down into one belief. I understand the reasons why people need churches, why they need the bible and a priest, but its just not for me. I've never felt my place would be there.

ultimately, to me, God is love. unconditional, non-judgemental love.

Love, like the ever providing sun perhaps?

I think you're right about chruches. I don't think we need temples to praise God, and we certainly don't need priests making money from a message that is free.

hmm…never thought of that, “love like the sun” :-)

The terms “God” and “Truth” are interchangeable. Regarding both, nobody knows either. It is clear to me that free will means total self responsibility. No divine intervention. No saving us from ourselves.
The “energy” still exists and always will. If we nuked the whole of mankind tomorrow, evolution would continue in one form or another.
All of the philosophies of this world, all thoughts of what we are and who God is. The concepts we have learned about the world. The images held about ourselves. Everything we think is either true or false, or good or bad have all arisen from the material mind of man and thetrefore cannot possibly offer an understanding of ultimate Truth.
We cannot approach the level of Truth that lies outside of time and space. IT must approach us. To achieve this we must shed all that thought, psychologically, has brought into being. The question of “How?” is not one that you may ask of another.
“The Kingdom of God is withing you”.
I am aware that my personal understanding is still a work in progress, but I am sick of the sight and sound of various religions cutting each others throats in the name of their self-created “Gods”.

That was divine Raymond.

 Thanks Raymond, yea i agree with alot of what you have said too … i think God and religion are quite separate in some respects ..

''you are just old, and confused, maybe you have read and been unable to understand anything, so now you just have realized your limitations, but you shouldn't assume others have your weakness.'' quote from daniel

''so some old fool can make some baseless claim like he knows something. You should just say, 'I don't know', 'I am a very confused old man.''' quotes from daniel referring to  Raymond I think…

I cant stand by and watch you be so abusive and disrespectful Daniel - I think you might take a bit of your own advise ie you are a very confused youngish man … and maybe you are unable to understand anything …

But understand this - you are being rude and nasty and there is no need for it and you are acting like a bully with verbal diarrhoea

And what you say is just a  puffed up, self important, verbal montage of  utter tripe.. stick that in your self obsessed pipe and smoke it ..

mystic .. my foot

Attacks and frustration are a reflection of self, nothing more, nothing less. The attacker will find the source of their pain in due course.

After Ghandi had written presumably volumes of stuff…he said simply, know this…

God is Truth.

i am sure you are right grant … but i dont think daniel should get away with being such a bully … no one says anything to him i am amazed

Raymond said: The terms “God” and “Truth” are interchangeable.

Raymond, do you promise to tell the God, the whole God, and nothing but the God so help you Truth?

izz said: … you cant tell other people how to be Daniel.

Didn't you just told Daniel how to be by imposing on him what he can and cannot tell other people?

joey said: Friend, I live for Logic. [and then goes on to say] 1+1+1=1.

I admire your (il)logic.

Silent Temple said: Real spirituality today is by default integrative and synergistic. It is no longer predicated upon gaudy baroque theologies and primitive forms of understanding wrapped in magical and mythical packages. [then goes on to say] We do not and cannot apprehend Reality. ***Yikes!*** Is that “new” understanding?

[but prior to saying all those he said this] Is God “dead?” Yes. Never really existed to begin with.

How were you able to say that, Paps? I thought you said we cannot apprehend Reality.

lindsey said: Please help! Is there a God?

When you say  “God” what do you mean by it? Since I am going to answer your question you need to tell me, because it is where I am going to base my reply.

ok fair comment .. but if you were being really fair in your appraisal you would have added some of daniels choice comments in there .. he has called people any number of names and made all sorts of assumptions based on the most scanty material ..

your're right I cannot tell someone else how to be - but I can explain to that person that I find their words and their manner bullying and that I do not think it is constructive…

Who are all these reasonable people!? And where did they come from!?

well what do you think lindsey - i'd love to hear your take ?


And i dunno - no one knows - they were written 2000 yrs ago [ ok maybe 1500 some parts ] .. but despite anything else ..

they have divinely inspired many people .. many people have received great comfort and insight from the bible it is the worlds best selling book - fact ..

no one can tell you about God lindsey - you have to find him / her for your self .. and no one can accurately answer your bible question - read them and see .. izz x

Great Response Izz.

In order for the West to see the Sun they must first come through the East.

For that reason I recommend that Westerners try the Tao Teh Ching by Lao Tzu to help them understand the true message of God.

Lindsay - your absolutly right how can we trust any religion that is the product of man's creation? ( if you dont think religion is man's creation than lets say it's man's interpretation of his experience of God).
The thing about God (interchange Truth, Light, Infinite, Jesus, Krishna, Unmanifest, Love, Wisdom etc) is that she is bigger than religion all together. God is not limited to the confines of any man made religion. She is omnipresent -  everywhere. Everywhere include in the hearts of the Hindu's, Muslim, Christians, etc.

Someone once told me that searching for God (the Truth) is like climbing a mountain. At the bottom of the mountain, you can't even see the top, there is clouds in the way and the top is way way up there. In fact you don't even have to acknowledge that there is a mountain if you do not want too.

However, once you start searching for God you start  progressing up this mountain. There a couple of main paths up the mountain - ones that have been used by millions - Christianity, Islam, Church of Latter Day Saints, Buddhism etc. There is also not as common paths such as Zorastrianism (sorry about my spelling), Rom, or Bahai'i.
You can even make your own path if you want too (becareful though).

At the bottom of  the mountain everyone is going to try and convince you which path you should take or to not take a path at all. Even on the way up the mountain people will yell at you from other paths, “There is no way your path is going to take to you to the top, have you seen the flowers and the trees on my path? There is no possibilty I am on the wrong path, these flowers have come straight from the top.” 

You might leave your path and go check out theres or you might stay on your path -  it does not matter!!! The closer you get to the top - once you pass the tree line - there is no distinction between paths! A lot of people stop here. Their doctrine has ended - or they are shocked that they are in the same place as the other hikers so they run back to the trees where they feel comfortable.

But if you really want to know whats the top you have to keep on going…

So my answer to the original question: Yo cannot decipher the Truth sitting at the bottom of the mountain! in order to know if God's real or not (or if there is an absolute truth), you have to climb the mountain - it does't matter which path you take - but only at the top will you be close enough to find out what/if anything is up there.

Great post. The thing I love about Zorastrianism is its respect for women. Zorastrianism is one of the oldest religions in the world, founded in Persia which is now Iran. Its beauty is in its respect of women; women enjoy the same rights as men. Because their women have equal rights, ie working, they have a very low birthrate; which in itself is good for the balance of the earth. If you think about how much bloodshed, murder, rape and discrimination that Persia and Iran has gone through over the centuries, Zorastrianism is one of the few beacons of light from the area. Oh, and they also only marry their own. There is much to like about what I suspect is one of the seven churches of God.

I suspect Christianity (unlike Jesus’ message of truth), much like Islam is a cult. Both are derived from Judaism, which plainly states that there is only one God; a God which they anticipate will return to them shortly.

I follow no religion. I relate to Taoism and sympathise with Zoroastrianism and Judaism.

Taoism is the recognition of an Eternal Way or One Way, it cannot be named or even talked about, but we can talk and live in balance with its manifestation Nature, of which WE are.

Lao Tzu taught a concept or idea of wu wei or non ado, it’s an idea that without planning, everything gets done. Without trying, all goals are achieved.

Lao Tzu provided us with a unique insight into the future of man when he wrote the penultimate chapter of his book the Tao Teh Ching. It’s worth a look.

lindsey said: in response to man of the east i'm not quite sure. there are many beliefs, the christian god, the greek gods, also the belief that there is just some supreme entity whos spirit lingers. i'm really not quite sure.

You are a deeply-intelligent person who genuinely seeks the truth, the question is of utmost importance, that is why I was compelled to respond. But if you are not sure about the specifics of your question then I won't be able to answer it, because my answer of either yes or no, as well as the rationale behind it, would directly correspond with the nature and precision of your question.

Reading the replies of all these people, none of them are capable of answering you, will just confuse you further and inject more doubt in your heart and mind. They are more ignorant than you are about the matter. The only value of their messages would be for mild amusement. When you are sure about the specifics of your question you may send me a private message or you can start a new thread at the Temple of Thought discussion board of the pod Spiritual Life. When that time comes, will I be able to answer your question to your satisfaction?

We will see.

Best regards.

Why the need for secrecy Man of the East? Surely transparency is an essential element of truth?

What is wrong with this thread? Why do you feel the need to move this discussion away from its success?

We would only be ignorant if we thought we could convert Lindsey to something; you will find no brow bashing or requests for money here.

Never underestimate people’s innate need to flush out their issues with open communication and discussion.

Lindsay, I agree that they all religions have fundamentally different answer to numerous doctrinal questions.

However, we must make the distinction between the extrinsic and intrinsic side of religion. Extrinsically, on the outside, they are all fundamentally different. Is it Jesus or Muhammad? How can there be a no-self (buddhism) and a universal-self (Hinduism)?

The thing about the extrinsic side of religion is that it only deals with the physical world, limited by the language, the culture, and the priorities of various social classes. 

The thing about the intrinsic side of religion is that it only deals with God on an individual level - how an individual experiences God.  In our world, each extrinsic side of religion is fundamentally different than the other. (God has different names in different culture. Different cultures have different ways of showing love to their God. What is moral in one culture is not necessarily moral in another. Etc)

However, the intrinsic side of religion - the ways an individual can  experience  God in any given religion-  is the same across the board, the goal of all intrinsic religions  points to the same spot.

Like it or not the more you truly follow any extrinsic religion the more  you are going  to have intrinsic experiences also. 

That's why there is such a movement in our society to be spiritual and not religious -  because the extrinsic religions are flawed (look at all the deaths religion has caused) but the intrinsic side of religion is not - its very much alive and well.

And that's why I encourage anyone who questions God to pick a religion and see how that religion's followers experience. Put yourself in their shoes - try and feel their heart - watch for the positive and negative affects of their beliefs.

If you don't like one religion pick another one, put your self in the follower's shoes. You'll see how any religion you pick is very very similar on the intrinsic side.

Daniel -  the hindu's pray for different aspect of God because God meets the devotee where he is in his life. i.e. the scholar pray to ganesh because he offers wisdom and good luck; the fisherman prays to the some fish God because that is what he knows.

GW -  is thTAO any different than the Holy spirit? is the Tao any different than the the “Intent” of the shamans? or the atman(brahmin) of the Hindus? or the non-self of the buddhas?

''I feel very passionate about God, and I find it offensive when people make claims and don't give proof, I don't find it constructive to make baseless claims. I hope you will read what I write and consider my viewpoints, as I will do for you. I am unclear as to your position on whether or not there is a God, though you have indirectly said there is one by saying, 'I don't think GOD causes suffering.'
 
I hope this is helpful.'' quote from Daniel

Hi Daniel - thank you I appreciate that response - to answer your question though - i dont know how to describe God - and that is not me being ignorant or making baseless claims - but honestly I do not have the words to describe him..

But my position is God is very real to me ..

I'm really enjoying all these posts here. I've never been involved in such a productive discussion on God. Some of the questions put to me have been answered by Daniel et al in my absence, i've really enjoyed some of Daniel's answers.

For me, I guess i'm in search of the seven churches of God. This is my preliminary list…

Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism (Shinto), Braham (Hindu)…

I presume that Buddhism is one, but have not delved below the surface as yet, this discussion is helping.

I too have concerns about integrity. I presume the Torah (the first 5 books of the bible) are the real deal because the Jews have protected the Torah (so much so that I think they may have helped kill Jesus for trying to show it to the Gentiles).

Christianity is a cult and Islam is an afront to Judaism; it's genesis. I suspect that Angel Gabriel has played a subversive role in both of these distractions from God's one true message.

I do concur with the Rabbi's beliefs on Islam. I don't entirely agree with his thoughts on Jesus.

Have a look at Islam's beliefs; one of them is CONVERT…Why? Why do they feel the need to convert. It makes me think of Christianity.

I agree with your comments about Judaism, it is a belief, an experience of God…the key is monotheism. I invite you to concentrate on the positives that can be seen with our eyes, for example…Hillel, who said that the Torah is simply, “Love your neighbour as yourself. The rest is just comment”. That's very empowering stuff.

You need only look at the dividend of Christianity…a state religion of Rome, the seat of power for the earth conquering British Empire, the seat of power for the corrupt gold hoarding immoral Papalcy. As they say in Latin….Res Ipsa Locquitor or The facts speak for themselves.

In regards to Hinduism, it appears Braham has monotheistic elements to it.

The essential element regarding all this is the persecution of women and children…excluding Zoroastrianism and Taoism; which both have matriachal elements to their society…society displays a shocking and at times violent imbalance against women and their children. I've seen the role of women in Jewish families mainly on TV, maybe you can tell me more about this.

I suspect that when Jesus said that God will bring an end to man's reign, he meant it literally.

My advice is to look for the fruit on the tree.

It is a very dangerous thing for one person to say to another: My way is the only way.

Jesus said no man comes to the father except through me. Does that mean he was endorsing Christianity? Most christians would answer yes. However I say that man should make no claim based on the writings of a book alone for words are frail and fallible messengers.

How does one know a book's message has not been altered by another man, or mistranslated? 

“Words and expressions are servants of the fallible mortal sphere and when called upon to server a realm of greater things prove inadequate.”

One more thing as my time is short today but a creation story does not validate a religion.

What came first, the spiritual world or the physical world? If you answer the spiritual then does that not make the spiritual world more real or higher than the physical? What if ALL here in the physical is “effect”? Would that not lay the chicken-egg argument to rest?

I'll comment more tomorrow when I can get back on. Great discussion.

Great discussion and i hope no one will mind if i offer my perspective. In my way of thinking, i don't see how anyone really knows what god is or is not. Certainly there has never been any human that has ever lived that could prove what god is or isn't to the satisfaction of all people. I mean really, where are the 6.5 billion people all in one accord and one mind on this issue. I hope this proves my point.It seems obvious to me that all religions are cultural and mental constructs, which isn't to say that they don't all have bits and pieces of truth in them (the gems so to speak). I guess i should include atheism on the list, which in my opinion is the non-personal aspect of god.LOL However, as people like Hitchens has pointed out-humanity can no longer afford this childish-he's only my daddy mentality(it shall be the death of all of us).So here is my pragmatic reasonable solution to this most dangerous of human dilemmas: the fastest way to resolve and bring peace to the religious world is  to teach all people to frame their view-points/beliefs/notions of god in opinion and hypothesis because religion isn't going away any time soon and in doing what i suggest we might buy us some much needed time.So: in my opinion/hypothesis Allah is god and i shall not commit murder in his name.In my opinion/hypothesis god is a trinity and i shall not commit murder in it's name.In my opinion/hypothesis we are the chosen people and we shall never commit murder in the name of Yahveh.In my opinion/hypothesis i believe that all religion is really Hinduism because of certain statements made by Krishna.In my opinion/hypothesis i believe that all notions of god are mental projections.In my opinion/hypothesis god does not exist and everything is a consequence of random chance. Etc. etc, ad infinitum………
Now having said all that-there is one person who could prove overtly to all 7 billion of us that it exists in reality as the ultimate reality and leave no room for misunderstanding or obscurity. However, it's a fact that this ultimate reality(if it exists)for what ever reason chooses not to reveal itself in a clear and concise way that would satisfy all of us. I sincerely doubt that it ever will (although one can hope). Because of this fact, i think it behooves us all to relearn the way we learn religion and do as i suggest above. Because if we don't i suspect Hitchens is right and this issue will be the death of all of us and even perhaps most life on this planet…….
Peace and Compassion , Andrew

You will get your one person Andrew, but only those with an ear will be able to hear the message.

Hi lindsey, okay, i was born into a modern secular family (thank-god) and really had no concept of god or religion when i was 19. For some inexplicable reason at said age i decided to go on a what's turned out to be a life-long quest for meaning and to get that answer to that one big question 'who are we and what's our existence mean?'
Thru the last thirty years i've sought out and studied all the worlds religions and philosophies and have come to the conclusion that god is good, although i do understand all the good arguments against my stubborn irrational conclusion.
Why not try to offer solutions? Is it that impractical? All it would take is to convince 20 or 30 of the worlds religious leaders to put this idea out to their followers. Surely they could see the wisdom in prolonging life on this planet. I mean, there arn't many other planets around to build churches on! I think this is a small shift in anyones world-view that would be actually quite easy to implement in a generation or two. Much easier than asking people to become atheist and hey, the beauty of it is that they still get to hold onto their cherished delusions!LOL 
And if your familiar with spiral dynamics let me ask you this: can a stage of development be inherently pathological? Do we say a 3 year old is inherently pathological-of course not! So what do we do with terrible 3 year olds? We teach them healthy ways to express their feelings and thoughts….Can we not do the same thing with the stage development of the mythic rational? I think we can and i think it's probably the most pragmatic tool we have at our disposal ,and like i said the beauty of it is that all these billions would still get to keep their core cultural,cherished beliefs. They would just have to learn to grow up on certain tenets of their faiths……………..

Right on Andrew
I completely agree with you. I think the best way to look at religion is pragmatically. It's not like God is stupid, why would she set up a system of religions that would end human race? God must be expecting religion to evolve. 

B

lindsey, why not have a pod to discuss all this? the comments notifications are getting out of hand - I'm getting 20-30 on my Blackberry at all hours of the day just for this one blog.

Thanks,

Nicole

God is neither good nor bad. God is just God. Lao Tzu summed it up perfectly, God treats all men and women like straw dogs, God doesn't care what they do, greatness, smallness…no problem. This is consistent with another teaching…choice.

Good and bad are human concepts, they help the majority to stay on a dictated path. Everybody knows that they will do anything in certain circumstances, Judaism even suggests that all bets are off when life is in the balance.

The power of God on earth has its roots in the Egyptian story of Osiris, Isis and their child ruler Horus. The concept of good and bad ie. Set is part of the great Egyptian Myth, which also includes concepts of resurection and immaculate conception.

We cannot blame the end of the world on God because God gave us choice, man's choice has brought us to this point, and I suspect woman's choice will safe us from it.

“what are the reasons upon which you have based your foundation of faith, or the lack of for that matter, and what led you to that conclusion?”

excellent question! my short answer is: evidence and reason.

that's why i ride with the New Atheists (aka the New Anti-Dogmatists)

keep on questioning and reasoning…

~C

Andrew, I agree. This sentence made me think of getting the camel through the eye of the needle…

” All it would take is to convince 20 or 30 of the worlds religious leaders to put this idea out to their followers.”

GW, spot on:

“We cannot blame the end of the world on God because God gave us choice, man's choice has brought us to this point, and I suspect woman's choice will safe us from it.”

As for me personally, I did't grow up in a religious/spiritual household. I was a what I call a 'sensitive' which made public school difficult.

Around age 11 I became interested in going to church so I found a bus that would carry neighborhood children to a bible study. By 18 I wanted to be a pastor. In college I focused on 'Religious Studies” (Hinduism, Buddhism, Native American beliefs, Toltec, etc, etc). By 20 I was touring the US as a drummer in a christian rock band. In my 30s I started waking up. I realized that everything good meaning parents, adults, friends, etc, etc teach you isn't always true.

At 35 I started practicing Heart Rhythm meditation and it bore fruit in my life. I started seeking out ancient texts that were removed from the bible or had been supposedly lost/destroyed. I came to the realization of how much I really did not know. I had put my trust in man. I was blind following other blind people in my life.

Last night I was thinking about this post and the difficulty of discussing God with mere 'words' I was reminded of this Sufi parable:

There was a wall in a village that existed for ages, and many tried to climb it but few succeeded. Those who had climbed it saw something beyond, smiled, climbed over the wall and never returned. The people of the town began to wonder what magic could be there and what attraction, that whoever climbed over the wall never returned. So they said, “We must send someone who can reach the top, but we must tie him with a rope to hold him back.” When the man they had sent reached the top of the wall, he smiled and tried to jump over it, but they pulled him back. When the people asked, “What did you see there?” he could not answer, he could only smile.

I love your reply sky toucher … i agree with you ..

All is based upon perspective. Perspective deals with knowledge. Knowelege (whether being the utmost skepticism or complete mathematical certainty) is still knowledge, not Truth. So there can still only be one right answer. Only one Absolute.

I believe that “God” is nature, in an infinite sense, and the natural world is concious. It isn't “Good” or “Evil”. We are it's seed along with an incomprehendably large number of others.
We are all part of “God”.

Honey chile, no one else can tell you or help you figure out if there is a God or not. And there will NEVER be enough “evidence” to make the existence of God a sure bet.

The answer is something you've got to find out for yourself. And unless you actually encounter – really have some sort of meeting with or experience  of  – that power or that presence or however it manifests to you, you will never be sure.

My only advice is, ask “It-Him-She-Whatever,” rather than people or gurus or self-styled “enlightened ones,” to let you know what's the Divine Deal.

Peace 'n' blessings, and may the good Lawd shine the Light on you ;-)

to quote Buechner….
some people are agnostic all the time but all people are agnostic some of the time

I appreciate the perspective of the Lakota term..Wakan Tanka = Great or Sacred Mystery.
It is a open ended non presumptuous respectful term/insight.
In that I feel it best to say I subscribe to the possibility of God, though do not think this Divine is separate or could be separate from the universe, standing outside of it. Nor would I feel this divine is static and un changing but rather is dynamic right along with everything else.
Like salt dissolved in water… a weak metaphor but useful.
Speculating whether God exists or not and then setting up narrow dogmatic definitions that one must adhere to in order to be saved, liberated, redeemed, enlightened, whatever, is I feel not even valuable at the best and destructive in the least. Rather it is about practice and living one's life in a state of right relationship and mindfulness. Perhaps this is why one often hears that Buddhists seem to be truer Christians than the 'Christians.'

Kaleidoscope Eyes clearly speaks the truth. IMO the best answer yet.

I wish to bring only one thing to the table, my love of Jesus. No one gets to the Father except by me. I believe in the Trinity and have seen and felt Him working through me and in me.
It saddens me to “hear” all this controversy about faith! But then again, the saying goes something like…the two topics you don't discuss…religion and politics.

I refuse to put myself in that place. I CHOOSE to believe that the BIBLE is the inerrant Word of God inspired by His Holy Spirit. I CHOOSE to live my life for God. I CHOOSE to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that His Holy Spirit is living within me and that I WILL have eternal life with Him.
You may CHOOSE to believe that my beliefs are in blind faith and to a point that is true. What is faith? Believing in things not seen! My faith is not completely blind because I have SEEN His works and how my faith has caused so many wondrous things to occur.

Ultimately, it is MY CHOICE just as all of you have your CHOICE to believe as you CHOOSE. I will be praying  that all of you will come to the TRUTH.

Thank you for reading my post and may each and every one of you be richly blessed.

In His Love,
Lavette

Dear sir,
As I expressed in my previous comment., I do not wish to debate my beliefs. I came to express them as is my choice and yours!

My CHOICE to believe that Jesus is God made flesh is MY choice and MY belief and NO ONE can change that. Just as I do not care to try and change your choice to believe what you desire I ask that you do not condemn me for my beliefs.
Thank you so much for your response.
In the love of Jesus,
Lavette

Lindsey,

As I stood in a spirit of praise unto God, I felt the urgency to post a comment regarding your question.

There are 3 things that the Lord would like you to see:

First, if you are questioning if there truly is a God means that you are searching for answers.

Second, you are not going to find your answers by seeking them from other people.

Third, Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened unto you, ask and you shall receive. Take the time to sit in silence and truly seek for yourself and God has promised to answer. Do it for yourself, not anyone else.

I pray that this message touches your heart and you do take the time for search and seek for yourself.

Blessings in Christ Jesus,

Lavette 

Daniel,

I have done nothing but be respectful to you. There is absolutely no reason to get nasty and start this name calling stuff.

God is LOVE! You have shown NO love whatever in any of your posts on this blog!

I will no longer play this silly tit for tat game you are choosing to play.

God ( the Trinity) does not need me to defend Him and I do NOT have to defend my beliefs to you.

Have a terrific day!
: )

Sky, I loved your story and story. I too was pulled towards the church, I was told by a Presbyter to go to University first, which I did, and now here I am again. As a teenager I used to catch a bus to a Baptist church. I loved the message, the beautiful spirit filled young ladies and watching the young junior male ministers argue and debate while the youth group congregation all sat there waiting patiently for a message.

Rhys, your comments give me hope, although I believe nature is God's manifestation on earth. This is explained to me in the great story of Osiris and Isis, who were of Geb and Nut; heaven (sky) and earth, they created Horus who was God on earth and was entitled to rule in Ra's absence. Ra is the first sun God that I can find. Some people suggest that the idea may have come from Africa, then went to Egypt and then onto Scotland. They have determined this by the colours of the tribes.

Daniel, Religion or even faith are human constructs for the experience of God. God only has one request; worship me, and God's messengers only really have one request, treat others as you would have them treat you. As Hillel stated; the rest is just comment or filler.

From The Torah and Judaism Vivienne Cato 2003…

(…As well as this, they are also required to help those from other faiths or cultures. The most important value in Judaism is to protect life. This means tht almost any rule can be broken to save someone's life.)

Oh God cares alright, he gave us the sky and earth. He cared so much that he gave us free will; a Zoroastrianism concept which influenced Judaism.

When you take out good and bad, what are you left with? Personal Responsibility. You must follow your heart in all circumstanes. My heart tells me not to kill, but I can't tell you what my heart might tell me to do in certain circumstances; therefore good and bad are irrelevant.

Lavette, Jesus is the Son of Man not God. Jesus is the truth, the way and the light (life). The only way you can come to God (represented as Father in the bible) is through truth. Jesus found the truth, was the truth and then tried to explain the Law (The Torah) to the Gentiles, for which he may have been stoned. The Law to Jesus, a Jew, was the Torah, he fulfilled the Law when he said, worship God and treat others as you wish them to treat you. Jesus' message was for the Jews, but his message of truth was for everyone. Instead of his truth being distributed throughout the world peacefully, it was instead used as a front for the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church, the British Empire, probably the Russian Empire and more recently the American Empire. His distorted message is even alive in the World Empire which is United Nations.

''' …really portrays the inexplicability of this issue in mere words. i think in the end you can reason yourself into believing in god it's probably something that you have to feel.'' Lindsey

Exactly - no one can explain what  God is .. it really is the impossible question ..

Lindsey - with the greatest respect - if Grant gives you an answer - you ll only ask him another question .. its never ending … no one can answer your question .. no one on this earth

But loads of people here have attempted to share their personal perspective - but at the end of the day - you have to develop your own perspective … and asking  never ending questions in a way stops you from doing that

ok well if we cant prove that God does exist …

We cannot prove that he does nt … which means that an atheist is no more rational then a Christian in his / her beliefs …

So why not just throw your hands in the air - and admit - maybe one day you ll know the answer to this maybe one day you wont - but either way .. this blog is nt gonna give you the answer you seek :)

Or probably is nt anyway .. and I do actually agree with Daniel - what he says above.

and all religious texts were written by man .. so how can they be definitive - man by his / her very nature … even if he knows the answer to your question - cannot convince another .. impossible

Lindsey,C4Chaos's blog has a plethora of videos,links,discussions, on this very subject,take a peek very interesting.
K.E.aka Rick,one of the wisest answers to date.

Hi guys,
I was here some comments before and now wanna be more precise. Thanks.
The question is : is there a God?
The answer for me is : NO (I don't need and it doesn't exist, this is perfect)
The answer for some others is : YES (They need and they have it, perfect too)
Where is the problem? Why then  this never ending discussion? 
1) Because they are all philosophers and this is their gym. :)
2) Because believing ones want to convince no believing ones, and these do the same, and all ask to others to demonstarte their point of view.
Why they do this? Because don't accept it being just a point of view or feeling and think they have the truth and the concept of truth separates poeple into good and bad and then starts the fight.
Does some one  find some sense in my words?
Thanks again

Lyndsey, Daniel answered your question to me beautifully with the quote from Isaiah.

I don’t know how old you are but I presume that you will see God in your lifetime. God will be represented again just like when God was represented by Horus. Horus is considered to be male and for that reason and others I believe God will be represented as a woman.

There are a few more things that probably need to occur before God’s representative becomes known to everyone. Some include…

Iran which used to be Persia will need to be occupied by the same country that occupies Iraq which used to be Media. Persia and Iraq will then be destroyed whilst being occupied. A major finance district will be destroyed as well. When these things happen you will know to look for the face of God’s child.

The power of man knows that their time is limited and they will go out fighting all the way to their death.

“well then why doesn't the almighty just show himself? sorry that does come out a bit aregumentitive but it's still valid. it makes no sense to me why he would really want us here in the first place though. i've heard the argument that he just loves us a thousand times, no offence but that can't be it. there has to be some rational behind his reasoning to put us here. why?he supposedly creates an entire soular system that is so perfectly intricate that it boggles the mind yet there doesn't seem to be any real logical reason to do all this. i know that at least one of you will point to a quote that says that gods knows all and we just can't comprehend his wisdom but it seems like such a simple question that no one can give a real answer to.”

Mankind was created to bring glory to God. That is our primary purpose. The universe was created to bring glory to God. Just look at pictures of stars like Betelgeuse and Canis Majoris or galaxies like the Whirlpool Galaxy. and from what youve said, i think youve heard enough people say that God's knowledge is higher than ours lol but its still true. I can't tell you why God hasn't shown himself. According to the Bible, he has often spoken to his people. i cant tell you why he doesnt do so today like he did then but i can tell you i trust him with my entire heart. it amazes me how something so much bigger (infinitely bigger) than me can be so in love with me. its an irresistible kind of love. and for those of you that think Jesus has nothing to do with God, i want to tell you that Jesus has everything to do with God because i beleive he IS God.

Jesus didn’t say he was God. I don’t think Jesus even called himself the son of God, he was known as the son of man, not God.

Jesus is the truth, he may be the Lamb ie sacrifce but definitely not God.

God is working through people all the time. But his message is not very popular at the moment; Christianity is popular, Islam is popular, but not God.

If Jesus was God, how was he killed by man?

I've created a new pod: anyone who wants to continue this discussion there please join at
http://pods.gaia.com/is_there_a_god

Was it not Oscar Wilde who said,

“Perhaps God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his abilities”?

There is much wisdom afoot.

Daniel, that was a great informative post…thank you.

Lindsey, I think you're right about the Gospel.

There are always information vandals in blogs and pods…they come in, grafitti with information and then you never see them again. I wonder what their motivation is?

Over 100 comments is a lot to go through, so I reluctantly ask whether Lindsey thinks I need to do a serious review to get current.

My take on this original question is that the question as stated is moot.  Faith seeking reason is the order of events as they naturally occur.  One's experience of the world is the prime mover in gaining faith as a gift..

go on youtube.com and search “the privileged planet”

watch all six parts ……  (you might have to search for each individaually - i.e. “the privileged planet part 1 of 6”)

we are here for a reason :)

Hi all,
What an amazing response!
Somewhere above someone said in absolute terms (always unwise!) something to the effect that no one can apprehend Reality. I beg to differ: it has been done many times before and is being done now.
In regard to all that has been said here may I suggest, so as to crystallize the various perspectives, you read my book The Milk Is White and either the website forum or my blog where my writing continues. For reasons stated in the lead pages of the website I strongly suggest that the book be read before the forum/blog.
The book can be accessed - it is free - via my profile page.
Love to all!
Ian.
()

there is no use wasting time on gods. are you all seeking an afterlife? is that why you are constantly seeking gods? if you dont get it here you dont get it anywhere.

PROOF that GOD is Schizophrenic: just look at the Platypus

I read two books that swayed me permanently from both religion and believing in a god: “God is not Great” by Christopher Hitchens and “The Alphabet Vs. the Goddess” by Leonard Shlain.  I'd been on the fence, previously.  To me, nature and the cosmos and everything about what is all around us is pretty darn amazing and miraculous and full of a certain order (and disorder!) in itself to astound and bring a sense of worship out of me.   Plus, as I see it, you have two versions of god to possibly believe in:
1. The supposedly loving but actually very vengeful and egocentric (not to mention hypocritical) god of most major religions.  Or,
2. A god that has the power to help us and instead chooses to allow the world's atrocities to go on and on.
Neither appealed to me.   
I'm not saying there's no mystery and there's not things we may never explain and don't understand.  I'm just saying I don't think any kind of god is part of it. 
You know what I felt?  Relief. 
Try it, you may like it.  :o)

I grew up in a christian home and felt a lot of “responsiblity” to continue that faith in my life. To this day, I don't go to church because I know that most of what people believe simply isn't true. So, when I am told this as a pattern of how I should think and live, it offends me because not any two people are completely alike and need to live by the same pattern. Plus like I said, no one really knows. There is one truth that follows most religions and that is to treat people as you would like to be treated. So, basically. I listen to people around me, I ocassionally read things on spirituality, but I don't go to church. Here is the flaw with the bible. It's a great history book, shows a vast range of geneology, but it has been translated and retranslated and has passed through a lot of hands. That leaves at the very least a small margin of perspective in the translation process added to the fact that depending on the location and time period, different verbiage can have different meanings. As far as what the bible literaly means as far as if there is a God, you may just need to read the original version. As for what you can get out of it now, the 10 commandments and the parables are some good guidelines to live by.

There is a God. The Lord exists and has always existed, although mankind's ability to perceive The Lord and The Word has changed and continues to evolve. Although many base their belief in The Lord's existence on faith, there is more than mere faith to evidence the existence of The Lord. Despite the various trials and tribulations that currently exist, the natural beauty, common daily miracles and revelations many experience reinforce The Lord's existence. Mankind has schismed into many different brands of faith to account for the tastes of various cultures and peoples but The Lord, in purest form is accessible by individuals no matter what brand (religion) they subscribe to. People pray to The Lord, not to their religion.

dear mr prophet, thanks for joining our group. bronwyn, please feel free to come to our ongoing dialogue on http://pods.gaia.com/is_there_a_god/

love and light

Dear Mr.
I agree with what you state in the second sentence of your comment but cannot agree that the “Word” changes and/or evolves. I cannot see that it even needs to, although our appreciation and/or understanding of it may change and/or evolve.
Just a comment, not a confrontation! :-)
Much love,
Ian.
[Hi Nicole!]

Hi Ian!

Mr Prophet, feel free to start a thread in the God Pod to discuss this, as this blog commenting is not very much read anymore. light and peace

Dear Mr. Gardner,
Thank you for your comment. A good way to clarify what I previously posted is by picturing that The Word is a gigantix puzzle that humankind gets glimpses of through various prophets, seekers of truth, etc,  via their experiences and sharing. You are in a way right, The Word doesn't actually change, humankind's collective knowledge of various peices of the puzzle increases thereby making The Word appear to humankind as changing but in reality humankind's perception changes as new information comes in.

I know what The Word is, my friend, and have also used the analogy of a jigsaw puzzle with reference to it in my writings.
:-)
()

Great minds think alike.

i come from a christian background and i believe there is a God.  i know before i go to ride a bull that i pray to him to keep me safe.  i have had 3 wrecks that could have killed me but they didnt so i believe highly that the one i wuz praying to listened to me and kept me safe

Hi Matt, and what would your belief have been, or be, if in the last of the three wrecks you had been severely injured and crippled for the rest of your life?

“God IS love”  Not has  Love IS LOVE! 
Love is an emotion.  Emotions exist they are real. The energy that creates life.. FACT is an emotional act of love. E=motion. Life is motion. Life exists, emotion exists, Love exists, so god MUST exist. MORE On E=Motion

God IS love attraction unity “oneness” but not aloneness!!
 Energy E=motion C2 See two. Not 1. One alone may have the emotion, love of life itself. But 2 can love each other. So See 2 gods. Yaweh and Yesus. Y and Y 2 Whys? Two wise old souls. Why?  Because!!
Because something caused the effect. We are the effect. Who is the BeCause?

Appologies for answering a 3 month old question.
Your actual question was

“so my question for you is this: what are the reasons upon which you have based your foundation of faith, or the lack of for that matter, and what led you to that conclusion?”

Really thats asking WHY do I believe in God, or Why do I believe in LOVE?
It would take me 42 years to tell you that. So I'll breif it down. Going back to the begining, the very begining.

If hatred had been the guiding force that caused our universe to evolve, it would be a much different place. Gravity would push away instead of attract. Objects of matter would drift appart instead of gather in spheres. The big bang would be impossible because no attraction/gravity would be there to hold together a sigularity powerful enough to explode. No love could say “I like this natural selection,lets keep it” No love could desire to do it again or to remember. No will to remember would mean records or memories would be pointless. So DNA would never form. Besides even the atoms of DNA would not be atracted to each other. All even the tiniest particle would drift apart seperate and lonely and unloved. With no desire to share their reality with anyone.

So does LOVE exist OH YEAH……

Can we see evidence of an all powerful all loving personal god, in our everyday lives? No. Thats why we need faith. And complex and many and varied religious excuses as to why god let things go wrong.

But it's not the universe that went wrong, it is us who are wrong. We are babies, children.
All babies come in to life through childbirth pains. No pain no gain. If you cant feel you can't feel love. But love hurts until you become familiar with it, or family with it.  It is an aquired taste. But love is the liquid Karma of life's energy. You need it to create life.

But don't tell the kids they aren't ready to hear the deep dark secrets of life. There little ears will burn.

What God Is
a discusion that asks what god is   MY Comments


Daily PLAN IT
On peace

I'm going to ignore the discussion and basically ad my 2c.

God = Universe.

You ask any physicist what the possibilities are given what we know about Quantom Physics and what we dont know but theorise of String theory and they'll probably say something like, the possibilities are limitless.

I believe there is something and whatever it is, it makes sense. We may never understand it as mear physical beings, but we'll always continue to get closer to an understanding off the Universe and it's laws which will only further open our minds and continually evolve our collective conciousness.

Reply to original question is: what point would there be in life if there was no God? Just be born and die does not make much sense to me.
Blessings to all! 

Unfortunately, if you're using the rational mind to 'get to' God, it's the most torturous route you can imagine.

I didn't believe in God.

Then He came to me.

And all the taboos we have about God were shattered.

It is amazing what is holding us.  You have to admit it, the rational mind has certainly done a good job on us.

There is a God. I know so because when I pray to Him, I can truly feel Him near me because I can feel this great love that spreads in my heart after every prayer. When I was younger and didn't prayer, I was a messed up kid. I was someone who felt that life didn't matter, like there was no love in this world no more, but thanks to my mother who thought me how to pray, I opened the doors of my heart to God and he pulled me out of my dark world and into a warm and comforting light. That's why I know He is real and He is truly a loving Father.
Another reason why I know He is real is because when you think about how we are made in a complicated way and how our bodies function in that way, only someone really smart and powerful could have made us. Issac Newton even said that the world is made in such an exact way that only a Higher Being could have created such a thing. That Higher Being is God.
But this is my proof. If you wish to believe then I congradulate you for accepting your Father into your life but if you don't then that's your decision and I shall respect it. But I am truly happy to believe in God.

i don't really have a yes or no answer for you but i believe god especially when i see the natural earth and the beauty comprised within.  Sure, there are scientists who will tell you that it is proven that certain things are formed from water and nitrogen, etc. and i think thats all true. However, i think that god had something to do with it as well. the feeling i know i get when i see the grand canyon for instance is utter astonishment and a lack of speech.  i don't think millions of years of a river wearing down rock is the sole creator. i think god is amazing and i know in my world, he exists.  

As I see it the sermons indeed are carved into nature. Forests, mountains, lakes, canyons, the ocean. Everywhere. Who says we are not Gods ourselves at certain level…!? 

Hi edigggity,
Where did the water and the nitrogen come from? When you answer this ask yourself “How?” and/or “Why?” and keep on asking this way for each answer you get. I will be interested in the result!

Hi Erin, The question is where did the water and the nitrogen come from?
When you have the answer to that ask yourself either “How?” or “Why?” or both - and to each answer you get after that ask the same of yourself until you find the answer. I will be interest in the result.
Also see click this.

fom the holy bible




jesus die on the cross for us with god i belive in him   and  u soild to

Okay Hi I am new to this group but thought I would add my 2 cents in. I was raised in the church and have been to many in my time. My Grandfather told me something when I was little that has never left me. He said that you can talk to your Creator on the fishing bank just as well as a church and no matter where you are your God is with you. I choose to call my higher power the Goddess simply because I feel the Sacred Feminine has been left out of  belief systems for to long and I can feel her growing in our world today. All roads lead home.  We are all spirits on a human journey and when we finish this journey will go home and I am sure that who ever or whatever has been loving me all this lifetime will be there to greet me and I will be happy to be home! Namaste, Diana

Yes.

There is a God, I believe it with all my heart. Look at everything around you, and if you take a few minutes to think about it, the beauty of the world didn't just happen. Things like children are miracles, as are emotions like love and friendship. God has everything planned out, he sent his only son to die for us on the cross so we could be free from sin and have free will.

Yeppers. I would deff. say he is up there in heaven, watching all of us.

Dear Seekers of Truth,
Check out the book “The Disappearance of the Universe” by Gary Renard if you want to read a radically different view of Jesus Christ, and Christianity.  It will absolutely blow your mind, if it is at ALL open. 

You must be willing to consider some pretty challenging concepts, such as reincarnation , but even if you do not believe in this sort of thing, you should still read this book.  You can actually glean a great deal from most of the concepts in the book without having to swallow the premise – that the book itself was given to the writer through a series of conversations he had with descended “Masters.” 

Give it a try.  I was up ALL NIGHT for five nights straight reading it, and SO energized by the content, I was never tired!  Every single person I have suggested read it has had their spiritual lives profoundly altered as a result.  Especially you Agnostics out there… this will answer all of your questions – especially about why, if God loves us so much, he would allow so much tragedy and pain.  It is a view I had never heard before.  ENJOY!
Liza

There Is a GOD who loves us all

I can't say there is a God but at the same time I can't say that there is no God. As  human beings, we are intellectual and reasonable but we can not prove any of the two statements. Some might point out and qoute the Bible, Koran, Torah, or Hindu Scriptures as proof to the existence of God, but you must rememer that they are man made and not by a divine being. When people hold their child for the very first time or climb a mountain, they sense that there has to be a God for who else can create those miracles, right? But at  the same time, fire,destruction, and death lead us to think  that there is no God because what divine being could let these things happen. I might not be able to tell you that there is a God or not, but I can tell you that there is Love and Hate. You can either chose to love or to hate, be a Tigger or Eeyore.

:)

Dear notorious$killer,
About proof : The infinite cannot be proved by the finite.
About Love and Hate: What “proof” is there that they are no more than 'feelings'?
About reality: Is this what science and the mind deduce or what can be “seen” by the many who are able to subjugate the mind and, therefore, see past it?
About science: Science has been proved to be extremely fallible many, many times - it has a long history of fallibility.
NB. I am not being abrupt with you, just succinct for clarity.
:-)

Hey Ian,
Um there's a lot of Ums right now. I'm new to do this so I'll try to be clear as possible. I'll probably make it worse but I'll give it a try :) Okay about love and hate, maybe they are just emotions but a lot of people are persuaded by their emotions and act upon them instead of using their common sense. Humans strive to be loved  from the very beginning of life, and sometimes there are no limits to what they would do for Love. So eventhough love and hate might be just feelings, they have an affect on us like nothing else.
And About Reality… Who knows what is real or not, the mind can play tricks and what we believe to actually have seen may not have been there at all. The mind is powerful and we trust it to be factual and accordance with reality. But the mind can be your worst enemy as well since imagination can thrive and a case of Schizophrenia could occour. 
Science- Yes, it does have a history of being fallible, but it was in the essence of seeking the truth and in discovering how the world works.  By going through many mistakes and trying once more time in an experiment, we are closer to the truth. It may take many steps, but the truth is worth it. And yes the infinite cannot be proven by the finite, but can the infinite prove the finite if we do not know infinite? Like can God be proof for our existence? We are finite right? We have our limits and are bound to die. God is “infinite” and has no limits and is eternal.   But since we do not know that It exists,we cannot say that It is the reason why we exist Like we cannot say that there is a God or not by using our texts or anything else as proof.
Amore Uccisore
Nelba

Hi Nelba,
What you say up to the section copied below is valid as far as I am concerned. and eith reference to the rest as here:
M comments are in BOLD within your text.
“And yes the infinite cannot be proven by the finite, but can the infinite prove the finite if we do not know infinite?
When one knows the infinite there is no need to prove anything!

Like can God be proof for our existence?
“Proof” is a requirement of the 'mind' and enlightenment is due to the total subjugation of the 'mind'. One who seeks through proof will be limited to proof!

 We are finite right?
We are not finite - only our bodies and mouls* [*see my blog] are.

We have our limits and are bound to die.
Only the body is born and only the body dies.

God is “infinite” and has no limits and is eternal.
Yes, and when you sat “IT” below you use the term I do.

  But since we do not know that It exists,we cannot say that It is the reason why we exist Like we cannot say that there is a God or not by using our texts or anything else as proof.”

This is the kind of menting* [*see my blog] that indicates an enquiring mind, and that will get you far. may I suggest, as I have done earlier in this thread to others generally, that you read my book and blog after that as you will find the answers to the important questions you raise. I would rather you read it than that I write another book for you :-)

One possibility is that there is both God and the human soul, and since they are separate, you might not be able to learn anything about (or meet) the former, until you had conquered and known the latter.

This is because, until you had known yourself fully, you would not know your soul’s limitations, so you won’t know originally when you are in the presence of someone who might be greater, and who might perhaps claim to be the Avatar (like Jesus, just suppose).

It might further be the case that the mind of man has a vast unconscious region, meaning that the soul could not be conquered and known except after many lifetimes of effort.

Further, the state of mind of one who had not conquered and known his own soul, might be chaotic, with hidden hostilities and numerous superstitions. Such a one could benefit by advice over the best techniques to purify his soul, but since he is not yet competent to recognize an authority, he won’t know where to turn.

It may also be the case that since the quest for God-realization means the death of the ego, the best teachers would be disregarded if they spoke openly, as the aspirants presume that only what they like could be something that is good for them, and cannot face the possibility that someone they do not like, could be an authority over the spirit.

It might even be impossible for a higher authority, say an angel from Heaven descended to a human body, to assert his presence openly, for the state of ego-death, although replete with ecstatic awareness, would look painful and stupid to any person with an ego.

Then, the questions, “Is there a God?” and “Why does God allow suffering?” may be meaningless, since if the search were a true one, then an authority could reveal himself.

The ego may perpetuate itself, to the extent that no true authorities that threaten it are allowed near, even in the midst of an apparent search for God, since the longings expressed are more in the way of remembering recent states, than opening fresh ones.

Knowing where you have been, you deny where you yet might go, but keep up an appearance of effort, because your mind has leapt to the conclusion that putting what seem to be the thought-forms of the masters upon itself, it has attained their stature.

This would then be called, the “fall of man.”

God might even reach out to you in mercy, but it wouldn’t matter, for you are content with your bodies and the pleasures they bring, and do not truly fear death, or love life.

Wow, in this one thread I find great inspiration and great fear, and I have to wonder if I dare express myself.

The question itself is fairly straight forward and while I am sure we are all quite familiar with many of our worlds historical viewpoints on the subject I am thinking that the question was asked of us personally, not the world historically.

Personally I have to say that I know that God exists, yet my experience of God also shows that it is not anything like what our societies religious traditions have commonly portrayed God to be.

Yet there is no way for me to prove to you or anyone else that such exists. While I do spend my life in helping others to discover their own divinity, and thus connect to the greater divinity that may be called God, I cannot do it for anyone. Thus we each have to discover that answer for ourselves.

Lindsey,
God exists in any number of ways. As James Arthur Ray stated in the world phenomenon, The Secret, the theologian will describe God as something that always has been and always will be, is constantly flowing in, through, and around us. For the quantum physicist, that definition fits Energy. To suggest by a book (like a bible or other religious tome) that God is some sort of all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful being whom we habitually address as He, is both passé and narrow and it's anthropomorphing this great unknown. It may be just my belief, and I don't claim that I'm correct with absolute certainty, but I would ascribe more to the Energy rather than God. I find that God is a very loaded word so I don't use it often. It's hard for people to think of Energy as being able to consciously create this universe, and it raises the questions you ask, like why are there wars and suffering? What kind of ant farm experiment are we? But that's because we all to often try to humanize that which we cannot comprehend. We ascribe human qualities to the abstracts in the universe. If we think of a person (even one as powerful as “God”) sitting down and creating this whole universe, we have to think, “Why?” What's ”HE” trying to do? But those ideas come from archaic and man-made interpretations. I'm sure that if you read and explore you'll hear enough theories to make your head spin. I suggest you close your eyes and retreat into your own Energy centre (some call this a soul). Listen and you will hear the truth from inside of you. No doctrine or theory really matters. What I'm saying to you doesn't really matter. What matters is what feels true for you, and what truly leads you to love for others. You don't have to be friends with everyone–but you should be friendly. Think of what you want, rather than what you don't want. Feel that you are a light in the world and that your body is a package for that god-energy. Remember that you are not an inferior being. You are perfection, and that perfection will be realized when you start to believe it and know it. If there really is a God, it is genderless and formless, and lives in you.
I asked a lot of the same questions you posed. I did a lot of thinking, and I came to the conclusion within myself that there is a great energy vibrating in the universe and that this energy doesn't require sacrifice, prayer, worship, or offerings. It is not appeased by lip service or by ceremonies. Those are human needs/wants. This energy is simply there and you have come from it and you will become part of it again. Once I made this conclusion, I started to hear a lot of ideas that were congruent but that also helped me to expand my conclusion. I suggest you meditate and search within. I'm sure Jesus was just a man, but he was pretty smart. After all, this man, Jesus, said something like “The Kingdom of Heaven is within.”

Love and Light

I don't think there can be a way to prove God, he, or she, is or isn't, but there is no way to prove it. That's where faith comes in, the problems that many of the philosophers of the Enlightenment period-and just philosophers in general-dealt with religion, faith and belief. Even though they came up with different conclusion such as Niestche who said that people create God, or Emmanual Kant who believed he could save God from science, or other Deists who believed God created the Earth, than washes his/her hands from it all, they still came to a some what similar idea that God can't be proved. It isn't a science based on fact. Yes, when we talk about many religions there is a degree of practicality, or rationality, but only as far as its adherents or practices go. Such as when we talk about the application of Christ's teaching, or Buddhist meditation, or any one of applicable religious practices around the world. But you don't have to have belief or faith to love your neighbor, do unto others as you would have them to do unto you, meditate or live minimialistically. The point is faith, if it were base on fact, then what would be the point. No matter what religion we look at there must be a degree of belief in your actions, no matter how pracitcal or even ritualistic the religion is. That is the point, that it is not about religion, but the common threads we share: faith, belief, love, and hope. That's what our ancestors believed that religion gave to them, an explanation of live. But since the advent of science, we begin to question our beliefs because we can't prove them. But perhaps it shouldn't be about proof, but about the things I mentioned earlier, if we have no belief, how can we believe in those things? That, is what I think, is important.

I like the Buddha's advice:
Don't  believe anything anyone says.  Find out for yourself if it is true or not.
And don't ask questions  that cause “vexation” to either you or others.
Just think of yourself without the question or “the answer”.
Who  and what  are you if this question does not exist?  Go from there.
With every good wish for peace and happiness 
((hugs)) mimi 

Although I did not read all of the entries I agree with Skyman. We dought the existense of God, during hard times. I know i have but I always come back to the same conclusion : How Dare I? For me religion has always been in Spanish and I never forget how the preist says “Dios aprieta pero no Haorca” (“God tightens but does not choke”) God gives us challenges to test our faith, to prove out loyalty. There's a reason why they call it faith. We can't see it but we can feel it, if we open up our hearts and simply believe.

135 comments so far. I missed the question “Is there a Devil”.

As Luciferus once was Gods Top Archangl:):)until he was outsourced:):)

I think it is a question that deserves thought and consideration just like all the other discussions about whether God exists or how God would reveal him/it or she self as each individual sees God or not.  Evil is not a black and white way of looking at life or people's behavior toward one another.  More has come out of has been seen which explains people's behavior.  Whether we understand a peron's behavior or is irrelevant because everyone's perception is different. 
Obviously we have laws that are set in place for everyone's benefit but sometimes they don't always work to everyone's satisfaction.

It is strange to think about religion and how many will say 'good v evil' like black and white. But if you really study the brain and many disorders it is really hard to reconcile the truth with the idea of 'good v evil.' I think that the idea of satan, evil and hell or even of God, heaven and good have more to do with how we deal with eachother. The fact that we need to focus and help each other as a community, and the absence of that is the expression of hell and of evil.

I understand hpw people of this world don't believe there is a God. I look round and often wonder where he is. I do believe in God and am a nondenominational christian. the simplest way to explain why i believe in God is that i have faith. its not unconditional; i admit i do lose my way, but i always come back. I made a choice to believe in God as i am exposed to all the differnt theorie of the world. I may sound ignorant by saying..how could there not be a God. A majority of unbelievers are alo associated with a sadistic or pessimistic complex. Not all are…. When a person explores or somehow partcipates in an activity you may not always understand why or what the outcome is, but you know that at the end everything will explain itself. I have faith that God is here and relevant. I also beleives everything happens for a reason. If i didnt believe in God i woud not be here today. I encourage anyone who may be leary or unsure about God to attend church or pick up a bible, not some webite where all the facts are and tries to shape your mind to there thoughts. I encourge you to explore for your own knowlege and see what you find through your journey. You wont be the same afterwards….

I agree with Jordan. I think it is important to keep an open mind about things, but not to be swayed by whatever people say but by facts and what your heart tells you. Thats the most important thing

Thank you funkyD. I appreciate your agreement.

Perhaps finding one's own peace of mind might be the best thing to do as the result of the question in this thread?

I agree with Jordan also.

You talked about how we wouldn't have our own free will and that we are probably just expirements, I could say those are your own opinions, but I'd like to post mine as well.

I understand that a lot of people question the fact “Is there a God?”. There are also people who say, “Well if there is a God why is he letting people get hurt, etc.” The thing is, we don't know. As sad as that is, we don't know why God does anything, we only know not to question Him. Also on the part about how you were saying that we're puppets. Not exactly. Yes, God knows what we are going to do in our life span, but it doesn't mean He controls our actions. He merely knows and watches. He lets us decide and make our own actions.


But for you, I just say let your heart lead you. Not your mind. Don't think, just wait. Your questions will be answered soon. :]

hmm, i am really new to this gia thing, so please bare with me.
god, god. god. god. god. 
i was 'raised Catholic' which means, nothing actually. Catholicism is the government.
so i considered myself nothing for 16 years. 
then i found god, well he found me actually. i could go into a rather long discussion about my journey, but that would take countless days.
right now, i am simply a believer. i live a simple life and i don't have a church i belong to anymore, for i think organized religions are getting corrupted and have gotten far from the real words of god.
i find god in the tree's and the flowers. i find him by loving the world, loving others and being like Jesus. whether or not people believe he is the son of god, the ways he said to live are genius. unfortunately, his messages are corrupted.
god is there, he is just bigger then we can comprehend. people try to put him in a box, and its impossible. find peace in that. he is everywhere, everything.
i have found myself to just, simply be spiritual. all he wants us to do is love god's world, and love his people.if we can truly do that, we have found life. 

Well,  It seems like you have a lot to ponder already from all the above comments.  Well Lindsey first I ask you to search the deepest part of your heart.  The present world is all corruptable.  Trees are planted then die.  Yes they do bring life but the others slowly wither away.  Grass gets cut dried out and burned.  We get old and pass away.  I am a Christian however I do not force beliefs on anyone Jesus said Seek and you shall find Knock and the door will be opened.  The biggest recomendation I can give to you is to buy two important books or get them from the library believe me knowing the truth is worth the effort to sit and read these books.  They are written by Lee Strobel first read The Case for Christ and second Read The Case for a Creator.  These books were written by a Harvord law graduate who was an atheist until he did a two year investigation on christianity.  He challenges things very fairly and makes sure no evidence is left out.  I could talk all day but I would highly encourage you to seek it out on your own.  You can also google Lee Strobel or go to Youtube and see some information.  Let me know how your investigation goes.

I just wanted to add that we can all say if we do or do not believe in god, but it is through the realm of experience that one can truly know. Some people need proof, some people have the proof, and some people are still looking for the proof. however, believing in a higher power, or having that “faith” is all about believing the unseen. Therefore, I say to you, through mylife experiences, I believe from the bottom of my heart, that there is truly a God.
Look at evolution. We must realize, that if one small step of evolution did not occur, we as humans would not be here right now. HOw could something go so perfectly well, so that we might be here talking about this? I believ it was god's hand. I believe he wants us to be here to experience al that it means to be a human; to love, to feel anger, compassion, sacrifice, to feel hurt. Because it is all of these that make us the person that we truly want to be.
There are also too many things that are too good for a coincidence or beyong chance of happening. That is called Providence. Look at your life; i don't mean yes you go to work, or school come home, every day the same thing. I mean REALLY look at your life; decipher all those small moments and try to figure out what they truly mean, why things happen the way they do. God is here to help us evolve through this step, to help us learn through this experience called life. We love because we can; we cry because we learn. everything has a purpose. I believe he is there, helping us through every step, and if we ask him for that help, he can give it to us. We just don't recognize it, because as humans are vision is blinded by all the misconceptions of this world.

Lindsey,

Your blog is quite poignant.  I grew up in a Catholic family.  I went to church on Sundays, had catechism classes, taught religion classes, made my communion and confirmation, was married once in the catholic church and then without warning, my world collapsed.

Things went wrong for a year.  I totally lost faith. Or so I thought.  I guess deep down inside I have a strong belief that there is a GOD and there is his SON who are constantly watching over us.  You pointed out where is there so much discontent and unfortunate people in the world like those with severe handicaps.  Is the world a perfect place.  If GOD meant it to be a perfect place then we would live in a world like the STEPFORD WIVES where all is good and peaceful without violence, heartache, misfortune, etc.  I believe that GOD has brought into this world people with missions in life, special people to do his work for HIM and to help us understand one another.  Being here in GAIA I found complete faith amongst these wonderful people, some with trials in their lives as in mine, and they are similiar, but the faith abounds.  There are “angels” for everyone.  They have not received their wings (i.e. A Wonderful Life with Jimmy Stewart) is a perfect example how one person can be at their lowest and something happens to them to bring themselves back to their faith.  I know I am babbling but if you get the chance, watch this movie. Put all your opinions aside and watch it with an open mind.  Take care my dear.  Blessings.

Hi y'all here's Buddah's answer to the question, “does God exist?”. And I like it

Thank you for that link Mikey_Dee - it is typical of the Buddha. Did you know that he is also supposed to have told people not to accept what he said as true but to experience it before deciding?
When I listened to the video link you gave it occurred to me that since we are “One with God” our perception of the relationship, or oneness - something the mind is not capable of conceptualising - varies with the individual spirit entity. The question arises as to how one perceives something one is part of or, literally, something one is!
I seem to recall writing about this somewhere, Gaia perhaps, recently - perhaps in my blog.

I have asked the same questions about whether God exists and if he loves us why doesn't he approach us/ speak to us directly.  Why does he allow evil to exist?  It is very complex.


However I thought eventually that God communicates with us through spiritual leaders like Jesus Christ.  If God is Spirit then he can manifest himself to us through human beings.  The more each person expresses love and other God like manifestations/qualities, the more we allow God to be revealed to people everywhere.   

What happens to the mentally retarded or abused people who are inclined to violence?  They may or may not be able to express God.  But maybe they can be helped or guided.  

   

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Personally,  I am  a believer and I am  seeking  God 
with all my heart . I think, We will never had the enough evidence to
prove to an  agnostic  person the existence of  God, because in order to see God  we need faith , and who doesn’t believe  in the spirit rarely will understand what
God  means.

We are talking about our creator and He is everything. He is
the beginning and the end, He is the past,the present and the future. So, How  can we  even pretend as a human beings to measure GOD?

 Related with the question: What are the reasons upon which you have
based your foundation of faith, or the lack of for that matter, and what led
you to that conclusion?

1)      
We don’t find God, He find us! And He calls us
to fallow Him.

2)     
To have faith and believe in Him It is a GIFT, because
we don’t deserve it by ourselves. (Ephesians
2: 8-9)“For it is by grace you have been saved, through
faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not
by works, so that no one can boast”

3)     
This calling is not rational, that we can decide
or not to   fallow Him. He touches our Soul.
He transforms us from inside to outside. We begin to understand that our soul belongs to
Him  and we born just to glorify Him.

4)     
When we accept God is our father  (more than a creator) . We born again. The process
of restoration  and transformation begin
in ourselves.

(John 3:5,6)” 4”How can a man be born when he is
old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his
mother’s womb to be born!”5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no
one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.

5)     
Because our spirit born, AS A NEW CREATION  we can perceive  changes in our attitude, personality,
mind  and  emotions. 
We can not be as we were before.

(Ephesians 5: 8,9,10) “For you were
once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)
10and find out what pleases the Lord.

6)     
in this new creation we have to follow our spirit in Christ,
not in our flesh although we belong to this terrenal life…..

(Proverbs
3:5,6)

5 Trust in the LORD with all your
heart

       and lean not on your own understanding;

 6 in all your ways acknowledge him,

       and he will make your paths straight.

Is there a God? Yes…LOT”s of them actually!! More than the number of responses you have on here! Let’s see, we have: Jesus, Mohamed, Moses, Krishna, Buddha, the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, the Kaballa, holy books, religions, churches, mosques, temples, politicians, names, titles, positions, bodies, money, the economy, preachers, rabbis, imans, food, sex, drugs, celebrities, etc., etc., etc.
Maybe, understanding what God ISN’T…is the beginning of Understanding!

No one can tell you about God. God speaks to everyone. If you listen you’ll hear. It’s up to you to choose. Religion is  a human invention. You don’t need it to know God, but some people need it for their journey to God, just as some people need crutches to walk.
You may even not use the name God, use Nature if that sounds better for you, the ancient Jews discovered that there is no name good enough to express the concept. It’s simple: “I am”

yes god is real. Please read (Mystery of the ages) By Herbert W. Armstrong. Yet i must say that it will take a couple of readings to get a full understanding of all that this book contains. Oh let me add you can download this book for free at his web site. www.herbertw.armstrong.com

FOR THOSE WHO DON’T BELIEVE IN GOD… Have you ever really desired something but were convinced that it would never happen to you? Have you ever gone through an experience that was so great that to this day you STILL wonder… How in the world could that have happened? Have you ever tried with all your heart to believe in God and in all he is, does and can do for you?I can tell you,I’ve been blessed with things I thought Iwouldn’t ever recieve!And I’ve noticed the closer I get with God. the more blessings he sents into my life! Something else I’ve noticed: if i ever start my day without God in mind first, my day ENDS UP HORRIBLE!!!! But as soon as i recongize it and PRAY, IT GETS BETTER!Ihave prayed and have had the most immpossible become possible! For me personally with the experiences I have had in life there is NO WAY there could not be someone listening to my every prays and making them come true! I love God with a passion and it realy hurts me to see that are people out there who aren’t able to experience the JOY of being in a relationship with God all because they won’t let themselves! I assure you if you put your faith in God he will not dissapoint you! Now he may do things you didnt expect or make things happen that is not the way you plan BUT there’s always a BIGGER picture behind w/e that issue may be! I CHALLENGE YOU TO PRAY! Pray with full heart and really try to see what God can do for you and to expereince the great love that he has for you! GOD LOVES YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVEN’T EXCEPTED HIM JUST YET! HE’S WAITING FOR YOU AND HE’S ONLY GIVING YOU ENOUGH TIME FOR YOUACKNOWLEGDE HIM, ACCEPT HIM, AND LOVE HIM AS HE LOVES YOU! Procrastantion is a bad habit lol but I encourage you to NOT PROCRASTANATE THE CHANCE OF GETTING TO KNOW GOD!

And another thing…If God didn’t exist than your pretty much saying his word (the bible) is un real as well… Well if that was soo… than explain to me why things are occurring in this world JUST LIKE THE BIBLE SAID IT WOULD when the world will come to its end! The bible says there will be serveral earthquakes, natural disasters, wars, and of course theres more but these three are good! I DARE YOU to check the statics of these 3 things, and compare themto other years and you tell me there hasnt been a drastic climb in numbers!

Gaby,

Your comment seems to put you among the “fundamentalist
Christians,” which is a surprise to me on the Gaia website, since it seems to
have drawn a more logical crowd. I say they are more logical, since most of
them have left Christianity following the basic principle that a single
counterexample is sufficient to contradict a proposition. The Christians
propose that no one is divine but Jesus, the counterexamples are the gurus, who
are manifesting divine attributes. Finding the teacher, they reject Christianity.
This is innate logic that they are following, which is beyond the mental power
of the Christians.

As for your hypothesis that God is the wish-fulfiller, who
will serve your desires if you pray to Him, I don’t think that can be the
authentic God. I would say that God has given man a wonderful habitat, and
expects man to be a friend to man. Instead of praying to Him, you ought to be
answering the “prayers” of your neighbors, which are for the basic necessities
of life. If man cared for his fellow man, then everyone wouldn’t be so
desperate to pray to God, would they? Instead you turn your back on one
another, turning insanely to the “God” of your delusions, in practice stomping
on the heads of the others, which is the very nature of capitalism. Jesus said
to love your neighbor as yourself, and the Christians are failing manifestly in
this, since they never give one another economic aid. You can go join a church
and they smile and hug you every Sunday, but if you run into trouble, they’ll
all tell you to turn to the government instead of opening their houses.

As for your claim to be close to God, let me express
ambivalence. Even according to Christian theory, there are billions of angels
arrayed around the Lord in power and majesty, and you don’t show any
significant awareness that Jesus could be very much above your head. I think
you have remade Jesus according to your own image, instead of seeking to remake
yourself in His image, which I’d say is the thrust of these people’s (many or
most on the Gaia website) sadhana, as they practice spiritual disciplines like
meditation and japam. They may not even believe in Jesus, but they seek
objective good, and if Jesus is really God, then they will meet Him one day,
perhaps among His angels.

You claim that your day ends up horrible if you don’t put
“God in mind” first, but do you practice meditation or even prayer for a half
hour every morning, as the enlightened guru Eknath Easwaran recommended for his
students? If you do not, how can you claim to be “putting God in mind”? Isn’t
some serious practice required, to demonstrate real devotion?

All this bit about the “joy of a relationship with God,”
even though “He” may not quite fit into your plans, sounds like plain,
parrot-like repetition of the Christian dogma according to the recent
evangelists. I don’t see any evidence in what you write that you truly feel
love for God, for your words are not gentle, they are rather violent and
aggressive. Joy is a personal thing, where you’ve made it into a commodity, to be
bought and sold in the marketplace; but Jesus overturns such tables, doesn’t
He? As for your “challenges,” you are merely invoking fear. You cite the “great
God” on your side, and imagining it is so, you seek to place these people
beneath your feet. Why have you threatened them so? I’ve been reading in the
website for some time, and these are relatively gentle people, not often
correct in the “big picture” that you cited, but their efforts, if a bit
half-hearted, are still more than you and the Christian throng achieve. With
them God could take a step forward for humanity, but not with you. Your very
attitude of threatening, shows your weakness, for a strong man or woman is
nonviolent. That’s the truly challenging thing.

When you write, “try to see what God can do for you and to
experience the great love that he has for you,” I cannot help hearing echoes of
the pursuit of pleasure, against which all the great spiritual traditions warn,
including among the Christian monastics. How can I tell if this is a selfish
soul that is gratifying itself then crediting supernatural forces of which it
has no knowledge or awareness, or a selfless soul that tries to serve God by
serving the actual needs of the other souls with which it shares embodiment?
See what God can do for you, eh? That sounds like an advert for that movie,
“Jerry Maguire.”

I’d say that a true servant of God would have to have
experience of Him first, and that’s what most of the people at this website are
seeking, as they seek God-realization. If you aren’t seeking God-realization
through spiritual disciplines such as yoga and meditation, then I’d say your
“service” is presumptive, and is mostly along the lines of self-service.

Second, a true servant of God would recognize inherently
that God is magnificent, hence He cannot be fully known. Whatever they thought
He wanted as they served Him, therefore, they’d admit that they are unable to
meet His standards. God enters the creation as the Eternal Critic, and if His
heart is gentle, He hopes the people will be responsive. Don’t look for God
unless you seek the Critic. Any other search is hopelessly inauthentic.

You write shamelessly in all caps, “God loves you even
though you haven’t accepted him just yet! He’s waiting for you and he’s only
giving you enough time for you acknowledge him, accept him, and love him as he
loves you!” My guess is that most of the people at this website have tried
this, and it didn’t work for them. Therefore they turned to more serious
disciplines than this plain “acceptance,” which is really just an excuse, not a
discipline at all. The Christian route as you declare it is one shockingly
devoid of ecstatic awareness, which is what drives the quest of sadhus for
God-realization. Instead you have cited only effects in the material realm, as
though it is the limit of your speculation, and you have no insight into your
own mind. It’s the typical Christian mentality, dull as nails.

I also don’t think that YHWH has been described
authentically in the Bible, for there you have what looks mostly like an
ape-God, a reflection of human vanity, superstition, greed and hunger for
worldly power. Man made an image of himself, and tried to set it in the sky.
This God can be faulted most easily by noting that He chases after trifles and
petty compromises while threatening the grand damnation. The God that is real
is more along the lines that Krishna described in the Bhagavad Gita, “Make
every act an offering unto Me.” The Real God supports the creation through
demanding more of it, than it desires.

The people who frequent this website mastered the
commandments of Moses long ago. If they still have trouble with the adultery
clause, at least thoughts of murder and theft and other crimes never enter
their minds. The Christians thunder about these commandments as if they are
sufficient, when if God could really command, there’d be millions of them.

The Ten Commandments therefore seem mostly like a way that
selfish people could consider themselves vindicated before a powerful God, who
strangely supports their selfishness. I know the people at this website are not
pure and perfect, but they care and they try, so if I were to choose between a
Christian and them, I’d choose them first. Seeking purity, many of them lay
down extra commandments on themselves every day, to try to be better people. As
for your comments about earthquakes, natural disasters and wars, you make the
common shallow mistake of presuming your historical epoch is the only one. It
is upon you to look up and supply these statistics to the rest of us, since
scientists, facing facts and exploring the situation with sophisticated
instruments and models, do not believe there has been any increase in the
number of earthquakes or natural disasters. I happen to agree that there will
be a Judgment, as God saves the planet.

God loves us regardless of what we do. God is not a policeman and won’t punish anybody. We punish ourselves with our foolishness so often. God does not need you but it’s up to you to chose to listen or suffer in ignorance.

Jayceeii,

I took in consideration of all you had to say in reply to my blog, but I really think you took what I wrote and where it came from out of context. Honey, my whole purpose of replying to Lindsey’s blog was to inform those who were unsure about the existence of God and show them that he really does exist and he wants us acknowledge him. But as for your interpretation of my writing and your view points of what kind of Christian I am… I don’t think that it’s your place to be a judge of. I’m very strong and passionate about my religion and I take it very seriously. I can say, I didn’t use to be as close with God as I am now though, so when I stated how there have been times when I started my day without pray, I was referring to past occurrences. Every person makes mistakes on their journey to becoming a better Christian and I’m sure some have even lost track and stumbled off the road a few times, such as I. But what matters is when you recognize it and change it and get to the point where you don’t let such incident ever repeat itself and you stay straight on the path of becoming what you need to become. This is where I am at this point of my life right now.

As for your interpretation of what kind of person I am, like when you stated how I was vain, selfish, and uncaring about people and just caring about myself… Honey dear, anyone who knows me knows that’s the last thing I am! I have a strong passion about helping people in which ever way I can and have always done so! I’m a very kind person and if my words truly came across to you as ungentle, I do apologize, and I’ll make sure to be more careful with the way I put things in context next time, but it wasn’t at all meant to be in such way. I do have few friends and acquaintance that are not right with God, and they aren’t because they just plainly didn’t have anyone in their life to direct them in that path in a helpful caring manner, therefore they’ve never given God a chance or even attempted to try themselves. So when I said that those who aren’t right with God should give him a chance and actually do it from the heart, I was talking to people who haven’t done such.

And honey when I said how if you pray for things to happen they will happen…you completely took that out of context as well. What I meant by that was that things that might seem impossible like seeing a distant friend that you haven’t seen in years but always wanted to, becoming all the sudden well from a big disease, or even simple things like passing an exam, or getting into a great college all these things God DOES fulfill when you pray for it! So that’s what I was referring to and I was trying to encourage people to pray because it’s through pray that you build your relationship with God. It really didn’t sit well with me the way you misinterpreted my blog and that’s why I’m writing back. I think it’s great that you feel that you are a great Christian and that you’re knowledgeable about Christianity, but again like I previously stated I don’t think it’s your place to judge someone else on their Christian-ship without knowing that person on a personal level. Thanks for your comment though and like I said I will be more careful with the way I try to express myself next time. Anyway, have a good one and I really hope things are much more clear now.

hello everyone!

im new to this community and i learned about it from a scholarship website.  i dont think ive ever seen a cite like this one, i think its great you are all voicing your opinions and sharing your thoughts about the world! I am a “new” Christian, i gave my life to God about a year ago and so the first topic i decided to chime in on was this one of course to voice my opinion.  as i briefly read thru the comments though, i couldnt help but feel hurt when i  read jayceeii’s comment about churches and that when you need them most they turn their back on you.  that is absolutely disgraceful. i attend 3 amazing churches and each of them always help absolutely anyone in any kind of need, whether it be helping to pay medical or house bills or helping find jobs for someone, and that is one of the things that i truly love about my churches.  Dont you think that it is rather close minded of you to automatically say that church/churches do that to its members? i have no idea what kind of church you have attended but obviously it is not there solely to preach the word of God and help others just as He wants us to.

if you think that churches are like that, then i suggest you go on a trip to many different churches because whichever ones you decided to use as your example for every other church, are not truly there to spread Gods love.  there are corrupted churches our there i do agree with that but it is just proposterous to say that churches as a whole treat their members in such a horrible way.

I pray that you do find a church that is there to praise God and to act as Jesus would, helping any and everyone in need whenever they need it, that is an amazing church and everyone should have the opportunity of attending one like that.

as for my take on whether or not God is real, you basicall know already but I think that sometimes people try to turn to God but because they dont get thsi automatic result they think they will get, then they decide to drop their faith.  We need 100 percent TOTAL faith in God to truly live the closest, deepest and most loving relationship with Him.  I dont know about you but in my instances, I am one of those people who needs to see things to believe them, which is why it took me so long to become a Christian, but God is so miraculous that when i did accept him and give my life to Him, He gave me the proof and i shouldnt even need proof but the fact that he SHOWED me that he was real, was one of the greatest moments of my life.  i do not deserve to be “shown” that God is real, i need to have 100 percent faith, but when you get close to God and are in a relationship with Him, He will more that prove to you his not only existance, but His unfailing love for you.

I may be going off the wall here. Is God or is God not? The problem in the atheistic and the theistic lies in how they identify the problem.When I see how the planet operates, I think She operates just fine. There is an intelligence, a wisdom, who I call Sophia that is at heart. Indeed, I would say God and Nature are not two. But, what I’m saying in this is not that Nature as thing is God, but that Nature as Process. God / Goddess is verb, more so than noun. Now to say that I believe in some woman sitting there waving Her wand creating everything is absurd.

Let’s think about this through fetal development. During the course of time in Mom’s belly, the fetus builds himself via a communication network between the cells. The instructions inherent in a DNA strand contains information regarding the entire body (as David Bohm’s Holographic Universe would predict, and the foundation of which the evil practice of genetic engineering whose goal it is to kill diversity and hence, ultimately, the planet…another conversation). Anyhow, through network of communications,the instructions for a heart cell are turned on based on the body’s need. In other words, the Mind of Nature builds the body, or, rather, the body builds it’s self based on the Wisdom ofNature. (This is also why in ancient cultures Goddesses often spun webs, like spiders).

So, Intelligence is proces more so thanthing. While science may have developed theories over the course of years regarding this, the body has been doing it for billions of years. Yes, there were bodies before Plato and they knew well how to evlove before Descarte. Taking this to a more macroscopic level, we all know there are lions and tigers and bears out there that liketo forage on gazells, muscrats and turtle doves. Using gazells as an example, if the gazellwas allowed to mate and mate and mate, then the gazells would overpopulate which would then result in the grass being depleted which would then effect the little insects and snakes that make their living off thegrass. Ultimately, the gazell would eat herself out of house and home.So, to help matters out, along comes little Ms Lioness who,with herPride and the Man watching,decides to eat one of the gazelles, generally one of the the slower ones, and hence helps the population of gazells maintain a balance which then helps the grass grow and which, in turn, allows for insects (of course the gazells help this process too by being natural lawn mowers that keep thegrass for overdoing its self…etc. etc. etc. So, ultimaely lioness and gazell are in partnership. The entire plaent, seen this way, is in partnership. Its we that are messed up. A lioness would be crazy to kill off all the gazells. Only human beings would.

Inherent in Nature’s Process, then, is Wisdom, or Intelligence.Now as I said, the Greek name for Wisdom is Sophia. Does this make God a Woman? No, it makes Woman a Goddess. In other words, Wisdom and Woman are verbs more so than nouns. Process more so than product. I am a man conceiving (a feminine function) an article. You are reading it. Hopefully my words will enter the pupils of your eyes and you will conceive your thoughts (conception is a feminine function, my writing is masculine or inseminating).

So, when we hear the academics say man has a feminine side to them and vice versa, they often talk about things, or personality traits. What I’m saying is that this is in error, just like saying God is a thing that can be proven or disproven. God and sexuality are Process more so than Thing. The Tao Te Ching saysto follow the Way and The Way is the interocurse of yin and yang.Now, most Christians would think of saying God is the Wayin the Bible as meaning to follow the teachings (again thing) of some externalized God. What it means, though, is to surrender to the Process, to Natural Process. Am I makingsense?

See, our errror in thinking goes back to even before Plato. Greek logic as handed down is very literal. Yes, I’m saying that in giving up metaphor we have evolved backwards. So, a Christian reads Genesis and takes the opening as being a literal 6,000 years ago whereas I take the beginning of Genesis and see it happening here and now. Why? Because to me it describes Creativity as process. So, when in the beginning there is only the darkness of the Deep (Tehom) out of which Light arises, then I write this and your read it in one eternal Now existing in INfinity (Tehom). Infinity is where time and space end and my writing and your reading occur in one eternal now. Think of this, how is it the infinite can exist side-by-side with the infinite? You and I don’t exist side-by-side, this is why people can see into the future or have premitions of their husband getting into an accident. See, a natural explanation for this wierd stuff! Infinity!

This is why Sophia’s name has “phi” to it, which is a never ending number. Now you could say you don’t believe in infinity, which is ok by me. But then much of our mathematics are wrong for important concepts like Phi would be out the door.

Let’s have fun by taking another Bibical story that is still occurring. Cain slew Able. Cain is an agricultural guy, he is our modern technology including these that want to control life through genetic engineering. Able is a nomadic herdsman who is closer to the nomadic styles of the hunter and gatherer (who according to many had the original life of leisure in that they worked 4 hours per week). Anyhow, Cain iscontinuing toslayAble. For example, the Kogis, a native American tribe in Columbia South America went into hiding from the Cains of the day, the Spanish, by going up into the mountains. So, back in the 90’s, a documentary was made about them for they decided to make themselves knowndue to seeing the effects of pollution. Then, a few years later, we hear that King George of Washington is conducting air raids on these peoples’ CocoaLeaves (which they use for Shaminic purposes) because of some “war on drugs.”

So, again, the Cain slew Able Myth is continuing to occur to this day. To see this, you have to jump out of the Platonic “Substance” view of life and begin seeing it as “Process.” God is not thing, or noun….God is Process or Verb. INtelligence, then, is universal or natural process and not a thing that we possess.See, this is why people refer to love of God, or the Tao, as The Way. Its allowing the Process to occur. Of course as part of that process death occurs. For that, I can’t help you for even death, to me, is a living process. Composting my garden taught me that.

Take care,

Burl

thats interesting because in the bible wisdom is often referred to as a woman

Funky D: Yes, you’re right, in fact, one of the original Christian churches was called “Hagia Sophia”. In Greek translations, Paul referred to Christ as the incarnate Sophia of God. In the teachings of the mystics, this Christ / Sophia were agents of Becoming with the Absolute as Being. Its much like Ramakrishna’s view of Shakti and Shiva: “The Unmanifest is an infinite serpent and Shakti is simply the movement of the Unmanifest. The Unmanifest shines forth as Shakti and Shakti becomes the entire universe.” I’m paraphrasing here, but it you look at the patterns, you’ll start to see a mosiac.

bensoph - Here we have an exanple of the difficulty of putting the abstract into words but I get the general drift of what is being conveyed in what Funky D states and concur.

Ian: Yes, I think you’re right. I just read through some of Funky D’s posts and think she has much to offer. She’s on the right track. Not that I know what the right track is….but I can hear myself in her words. So, its not so much right track as I’m in alignment with her. Ok. Whew it’s hard to get past our self-righteousness, don’t you think?

In my personalopinion, our problem in language stems from our Platonic underpinnings. We tend to see life, including our Gods/Goddesses as things. I see them as processes. Sophia for me is not an object or subject but is more process. This is also how I see women and men. I see all of life as Process, what Taoism calls The Way. This is howSophia is mine and I am Hers’. She ismy body and mind’s unfolding, its evolution in relationship to the rest of life.My life shouts “Sophia!”My life furthermore does not unfold in a vacuum, but unfolds in relationship to everything else. Truth be known, this is what Astrology is about, we exist in relationship to the stars.

What physicist David Bohm describes as holographic universe, the ancients knew intimately. “God made humanity in his image, male and female,” Genesis 1:27. This is holographic theory, it is also behind the power of metaphor for metaphor, as Gregory Baetson puts it, is a language that connects. This is the true definition of religion, to connect. Again, religion has come to be seen as noun where as its original definition was as averb…a process more so than product.

On another group, I just read a post claiming that the universe was much like a hologram. This idea is basic to me, and has been since the 90’s.Its the foundation to my writing of Sophia’s Web. By holographic,I mean that in every part there is a whole. For example, if we took a high powered microscopic to your finger, we would eventually come to a universe that is a mirror to the greater universe in that atoms (which are not really things but processes) exist in the same proportion as stars / planets to intergalactic space. Yes, you look like your Mother Nature. This is why Her name means Essence.Nature is your Self. As a man youreflect the fertilizing, penetrating, aspectsof the Sun’s rays upon the Earth which then initiates the unfolding of seeds embedded in the ground much as eggs exist in a woman’s body and which are enticed into unfolding as fetuses by sperm.

Looking at life this way, we can see ourselves in all things.You wrote a post, I took it within me, and now this post is our baby. We created it together. Its neither mine or yours, but ours. This idea of mirroring is immanent In one version of the story of Narcissus. He started talking to bees and flowers and streams because he saw himself in all things. This is also how I integrate myempathy with the philosophy of Deep Ecology with my mysticism.

I haven’t yet had the chance to really check out your stuff, but have browsed through it. It sounds like you have a lot of insight into the Eastern ways of Hinduism. This is good, very powerful ideas in Hinduism.I enjoy the mysticism of Ramakrishna, who started out very Tantric but then turned more Brahmian. But, his gift was in bridging the two, ultimately. In this sense,he wasvery much like the Christian mystic, Meister Eckhart. Ever read him?He’s worth the read.

In one of the Upanshands, it is said that the Self is this entire world. If you read Deep Ecology, they say the same thing. I think we are so atuned to thinking dualistically that we can’t see that we are mirror images of the whole. Why even male and female in the holographic world are mirrors of one another. This is the true definition of opposite. So, is the universe united or divided. The answer is “Yes!” In a mirror image, left becomes right and vice versa. Its the same with other opposites. Men and women mirror one another with woman reflecting the inner worlds (e.g., creative art)and men reflecting an outward orientation (e.g., obejective science). Think of what this mirroring concept means in the case of war where we oppose our enemies. There is a deep truth to the “Love thy neighbor as thyself” command. Indeed, holographic physics would predict it. See, we truly are brothers, Ian!

Hi Burl, I understand what you mean when you mention self-righteousness in the context in which you have, and have been in that quandary. I do not see it as self-righteousness but as the acceptance of where one is, or perceives one’s self to be, and acceptance of the right to express one’s knowledge/perception neutrally. One cannot help how others perceive this and it is best to be non-attached where this is concerned.

Yoyu mention “process” and I am reminded of this from my blog.

There is a lot of Truth in the statements of many; as I often say, ‘The Truth exists.’ and the consequence of this is that people relate to, resonate with, recognise the Truth when they come across it. It is not really a “mind” (Moul) matter. Hence, what you say above applies, naturally.
We are all “brothers” my friend, it is just that our present state of being appears to differentiate.
I will have a look at Funky D’s posts, but since I completed Part One of my book I unaccountably* ceased reading spiritual matter and since then rely on neoption.
Have to go - a long lost friend has arrived!

* Not really!

You can always look for God from a personal perspective. The question if God exists is irrelevant for you if you don’t have personal relationship with God and if you the question is redundant. If you don’t and are doubting then the you obviously are seeking which is the normal way to develop relationship with God. I believe that God is speaking to us all the time. It’s up to us to listen or get distracted by noises.

Ian: I read your blog and we truly do have much in common. As I have more time, and get to know this arena of Gaia better, we will have to link up to have some discussion. Maybe we can also share writings? I have a rough draft of a blog I will probably post soon. It’s a Deep Ecology statement, yet has much to do with spirituality and our divisive mentalities.

Alex: I agree regarding personal perpective. From my point of view, all is personal. I sit myself on a rock in the woods surrounding my house, and I experience Presence…a Life - Power immanent in all things. I see the balance in Nature and realize that there is Wisdom inherent in Nature and, indeed, I think Wisdom and Nature are one and the same.I even see destruction as being wise for it is through destruction that life is recreated. Hence, the Hindus have the dance of Mother Kali. Don’t you think it interestingthat our word for play is re-creation? I think the problem for me comes in with dualistic, self-righteous thought and expression. Many times you hear, “it’s my way or the highway” expressed as “my way is true and if you don’t believe in my way then I am going to shoot you or you will be damned into hell for eternity.” To me, these kinds of statements are abusive and are terrorist tactics in order to get someone to succumb to a particular point of view. I was raised around a lot of evangelistic Christians and really had to do some soul searching regarding what they were doing and saying.IN my old age, I feel that every word or sayingisa double edged sword. For example, if I saya particularperson is self-righteous, then I could mean it to be that person is arrogant in his or her views. However,if I seesomeone who is anchored in his or her beliefs by love and commitment, then I say they are self-righteous also.The latter is evidenced by a sense of security and being well founded. The former is marked by arrogance. Just some of mythoughts here at 5 am.Could it also be that God challenges our belief in God to move us into a deeper understanding?

I used to go to church often with my parents. I never truly believed in God, but I never denied his existence. I even became confirmed in my faith in 8th grade. I now believe that there is some sort of a higher being, but that I do not need to choose a church to join to prove myself to Him or Her. If I lead a good life with good intentions, I believe I will go to heaven or any equivalent.

bensoph/Burl,
I read little nowadays but have browsed your blog/journal where I understand the gist of what you say. I like the metaphors of Culture and Nature and the way you have used them.
As for sharing my writing, I have done for some years now, my friend, on paper and all over the web - and at no cost to anyone!
I will get notification of your journal posts.
()

I think the problem is confusing because the answer is

two sided. God (if yo are a believer) doesn't seem to

take part in daily micromanagement of world affairs

and we are very much free do do as we please.

Including do wrong and including harm ourselves and

others. Yet deep inside we are similar and some see

this as proof of one creator and I agree with them but

that is not the point. The truth is that we come to

this world profoundly similar deep inside but with

varied talents and free will to use or wasted them as

we wish still our rights remain the same but our lives

and personalities are unique. In this we try to unite

or identify with certain groups we find useful and

that's the only way to reach our goals. Importunately

sometimes such unity is turned against non-members and

that is counterproductive, bad if not outright criminal.

Ian: Thanks for the feedback. I am going to work a little more on the Nature / Culture / Humanity script and turn it into a short play to be presented. My wife is looking to play Nature and we are looking at a Permaculture woman (fairly young, early 30’s maybe) to play Culture. I’m probably going to play the Son. We’ll see how it turns out. We’re looking to perform it to peace groups, ecology groups, and non-corporate farmers (e.g., permaculture groups, free range meat farmers, etc.) here in Maine. All in the intial stages, but I think it could turn out to be fun. I’m looking forward to taking time to look at your writings. Take care, Burl

Hi Alex, I have expressed virtually the same points though, naturally, in different words!

Burl, I wish you success in your endeavours; in the final analysis ‘It is the thought that counts.’ - in other words our actions are what matter, not the results. However, if our actions result in something that too has its purpose!
:-)